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Wild rumor: Apple & TiVo partner for iTV

I'm going to disclaim this upfront as a wild rumor that just landed in my inbox. I'd wager it's got about a 25% chance of being true but hey, I'd love to be wrong on it and see what launches next month at Macworld SF. Here's the rumor:

Apple will be licensing TiVo patented technology for iTV. Also, the name iTV has changed to Mac Media Capsule

I tried to find some shred of evidence this could be true. I took a look at pending Apple and TiVo patents and there's only one patent application owned by Apple that mentions TiVo, and it's in relation to buying a whole TV season at the iTunes store. Last summer TiVo was hiring Mac programmers, but I figured that was just for TiVo Desktop support. I couldn't find anything concrete.

Again, this is a crazy rumor with nothing to back it up and I'd be really surprised if any Apple device recorded TV, much less running the TiVo OS on it, but damn, if this is true, I would love to own such a device.

I do have to say the entire iTV concept as previously described is a little thin. People won't pay a couple hundred bucks just to have a device that plays iTunes Store purchases on their TV -- it has to do other stuff, but will it be TiVo recording TV for you? In that teeny form factor? I guess we'll know when Macworld happens in San Francisco on January 9, 2007.

by Matt Haughey December 5, 2006 in News

Comments

How would the iTV get the cable signal? Unless it went to a computer first and then wirelessly to the iTV and then to the TV...

Maybe there are some IP issues that apple didnt want to step into?

Posted by: Tyson at Dec 5, 2006 10:01:58 PM

If they're doing anything in the DVR space they could impinge on TiVo's patents, so they may just be licensing the patents and not necessarily the TiVo software. Sony still licenses the TiVo IP even though they don't make TiVo-based DVRs anymore.

Posted by: MegaZone at Dec 5, 2006 10:30:31 PM

let me get this right - anything that lands in your mailbox has a 25% chance of being right? you do realize how hokey that sounds don`t you?

also, your evidence is non-evidence. referencing a patent does not infer partnership. SEC 8-k material filings must be present for all substantial partnerships that involve payments, licensing, etc... i`m willing to wager you did not find any such filing. i am also willing to wager 100s of companies have referenced tivo`s patents. your last bit of evidence is a joke. the joke is why hasn`t tivo been able to get the mac version of tivodesktop software running? they have been promising it over a year. so, apple and tivo have this alleged strong partnership, but tivo cannot deliver a simple client server transcoder (tivodesktop software)?

Posted by: analyst_shamanalyst at Dec 6, 2006 4:08:57 AM

If anything, they have some agreement for Tivo2Go. Maybe that's why we've never seen a Mac version. Who knows.

Posted by: Peter at Dec 6, 2006 5:12:28 AM

analyst_shamanalyst:

If you take a closer look, he never claimed that everything in his inbox has a 25% chance of being right, but rather that he feels this rumor does. And he also says he could NOT find much evidence to support this rumor, and then takes the time to cite what little information he does have that could possibly be interpreted to show that this might happen.

Posted by: Brad Linder at Dec 6, 2006 6:02:13 AM

I say 0%.

Posted by: Dave Zatz at Dec 6, 2006 6:08:14 AM

Let's assume this is happening (and I'm not) for a second. What TiVo gets out of teaming up with Apple is, possibly, a media platform (in the form of iTunes, not just Mac OS X) they could use as a competitor to XP MCE and Vista. If they were to implement TiVoToGo and TiVoGoBack (officially, that is, for TGB) within iTunes (as opposed to Windows and/or Mac OS X) and license FairPlay from Apple so they could finally address all those protected files in iTunes, then you would be talking about a worthwhile rumor.

Apple, of course, gets a robust PVR platform to tie into that has a decent installed user-base to sell their products to. With the Comcast and Cox TiVo software roll-outs imminent in the next year, that is probably also something Apple would love to be able to connect to.

But, really, I don't think iTV's going to be that deep. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's just going to be a simple media extender for OS X and iTunes on Windows.

Posted by: Geoffrey Sperl at Dec 6, 2006 6:52:30 AM

Just FYI, the box is not just to play iTunes store purchases on your TV. Essentially, it lets you access anything you can access on your iPod, via your living room, without having to attach your iPod to the TV. So all the stuff you have ripped in your iTunes, all your photos, etc.

In a rare case of demoing a product before it was ready, Steve Jobs showed what it does in September at the same presentation where the second generation iPod Nano was announced.

If you have Quicktime you can watch it here:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/showtime06/

Posted by: Tim Farley at Dec 6, 2006 8:26:08 AM

Who would actually think that "Mac Media Capsule" is a good name? It's awful, not to mention a mouthful. When a company names almost all their products to be no more than two syllables (iPod, iMac, MacBook, Mac Pro) why would they then give their latest product such a clunky name as Mac Media Capsule? And how is that actually any better than iTV?

Posted by: Parsec at Dec 6, 2006 11:47:24 AM

Apple won't get involved in this because the mess TiVo is in right now with CableCARD, SDV, etc. With its Series3, TiVo is betting on cable, and the cable companies are not co-operating. And recording two (digital) shows at once -- a make-or-break feature -- requires support from the cable companies.

Decoding digital television -- cable, satellite, IPTV, etc. -- is such a fiddly thing that I doubt even Apple will be able to make it simple.

If the prototype of the iTV shown in Sept is accurate, then the only "input" is ethernet. So conceivably, while broadcast television could be delivered to the iTV over IPTV to the 1m or so people to can get it, cable and satellite (99% of today's market) appear to be out-of-the-question.

Posted by: Andy at Dec 6, 2006 1:11:07 PM

The iTV could accept USB 2.0 tuners, I'm sure El Gato, et. al. would be happy to supply them.

The iTV could have a built in OTA HDTV tuner, that would be a nice surprise.

But I really don't see Apple making a DVR product unless they can tune digital cable, which wouldn't happen without CableLabs. And I imagine Jobs would cancel the project before he released something as crippled as the TiVo S3. For instance, I can't imagine CableLabs allowing digital tv to be copied to an iPod if the TiVo S3 can't do TiVoToGo(Back) or even Multi room viewing.

Posted by: T. at Dec 6, 2006 3:17:09 PM

I guess I could see iTV working with a TiVo in some way, but it's not going to be a PVR itself. I found this quote from March over at AppleInsider:
Adding video recording functionality would have made the Mac mini too complicated, Schiller told the publication. "We're not trying to replace the TiVo," he said. "This is about taking the media from your computer and accessing it via the TV."

He said that in reference to rumors that Apple was building a Mac Mini with PVR capabilities. I don't think anyone will deny that the iTV is a specialized Mac Mini. The full AppleInsider article can be found here: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1569

Posted by: Parsec at Dec 6, 2006 3:17:38 PM

“I found this quote from March over at AppleInsider:
Adding video recording functionality would have made the Mac mini too complicated, Schiller told the publication. "We're not trying to replace the TiVo," he said. "This is about taking the media from your computer and accessing it via the TV."

Isn’t Schiller the guy who said Apple wouldn’t get into the cut throat low end PC market and then 6 months latter Apple came out with the Mac Mini?

CVB

Posted by: CVB at Dec 6, 2006 4:40:40 PM

Consider this nugget: the guys at DigitalDroplet.net, developers of the beautiful, Front-Row-like, AudioFaucet app for TiVo (which lets you use your TiVo to control and play music via iTunes) are working on "another major HME related project". They won't say what it is - maybe because they signed a nondisclosure agreement? If Apple's going to license TiVo software for the iTV, these guys would do a bang-up job at designing an interface. Here's the link to their statement:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=321611

Posted by: PJ at Dec 6, 2006 7:37:44 PM

The name cannot be Mac Media Capsule, unless apple is suddenly stupid. MacMediaCapsule.com was registered today via godaddy, while mediacapsule.com was registerd back in May 04, and is currenly for sale. AppleMediaCapsule.com is still available. If the name had been decided on by Apple, of even under consideration, they would have registered the .com if available.

Oh, and all of apples domains are registerd at Markmonitor.com.

The chance they partner with Tivo may be 25%, but the chance of iTV changing to that name is 0%.

Posted by: MacShout at Dec 6, 2006 9:24:07 PM

I've been dreaming of Apple working with TiVo to do MRV (multi-room viewing) of TiVo content. I don't want or need a second TiVo in my house just to be able to watch my TiVo'ed programs on a second TV. If the iTV could just stream TV from my TiVo, I'd be in heaven. Also wouldn't hurt if my TiVo could stream protected iTunes content from my mac.

Of course, being a TiVo S3 owner, I don't have MRV available yet anyway.

Posted by: Eric at Dec 7, 2006 9:28:01 AM

Actually, thinking more about this, I do believe they could simply license the interface for use with iTunes movies and music. There could be thumbs up/down, navigation, and sounds.

Apple is afraid of litigation and they were the first (only) company to license Amazon's 1-click patent for their store.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Dec 7, 2006 9:51:03 AM

MacCap would sound pretty good.

Posted by: Jackie at Dec 7, 2006 10:57:56 AM

iTV / Mac Mini Media Capsule?
If Apple includes TVR - TiVo, then doesn't that canniblize the iTunes TV shows & deals with Networks? That cannot be a good thing & Networks would not like that...

MMM Capsule will need to do other things to become a marketplace item.

Will see what Steve Jobs says @ Macworld Expo, until then it just isn't the truth.

Posted by: Llib Setag at Dec 7, 2006 12:49:27 PM

All you need to do is to intergrate a device such as Elgato's EyeTV hybrid which connects to your digital cable and plays, schedules, records and then burns TV programming via Toast to DVD from you Mac. It performs just like , if not better, than TiVo and also allows remote programming from the Internet. You can record HD quality from your HD digital cable connection but you need at least a G5duel processor on an Intel.

I am using this set up with my iMac G5 and it performs perfectly. to recored pay TV you need to take the connection from you cable box to the USB cable connction. But if they could incorpotate a cable card in the iTV, then you could by pass the cable converter box.

Posted by: Denny at Dec 7, 2006 1:36:15 PM

For Christmas, I'd love Apple to buy TiVo, so they'd never have to worry about money, could forget about selling ads in the Delete Program screens and during fast forwarding and get iTunes purchases to stream through TiVo Desktop. Apple could help TiVo miniaturize their Series2 DT machines and TiVo add an iPod dock to the top of their machines, so you could play directly from, and charge, your iPod.

But, that's as likely to happen as Santa delivering presents all over the world in one night.

Posted by: warrenpeace™ at Dec 7, 2006 5:28:54 PM

I think they bought the rights to the ROKU HD1000. ROKU had a good user hacking base and then they stopped and discontinued the product. They haven't released an update since. The iTV looks kinda like an HD1000 as well. It already runs embeded Linux which is an easy port. I have absolutely no proof of this, but I think that's what happened. The ROKU unit falls in line more with the APPLE vision. Throw in a Front Row app, Bonjour,micro-Safari browser for iTunes store portal and H264 streaming with quicktime support and they would be set. Tuner cards could be added through USB breakout box, if at all. The whole goal of Apple is to get all the networks to put their shows in the iTunes Store and go a la carte or season pass. Why would they even bother with Comcast or Time Warner? That's too much headache and they are too gready.

Posted by: vega at Dec 7, 2006 6:42:20 PM

The iTV could accept USB 2.0 tuners, I'm sure El Gato, et. al. would be happy to supply them.
----------
http://www.dl4all.com

Posted by: Michael at Dec 11, 2006 1:20:34 PM

The iTV could accept USB 2.0 tuners, I'm sure El Gato, et. al. would be happy to supply them.

The iTV could have a built in OTA HDTV tuner, that would be a nice surprise.
----------
http://www.dl4all.com

Posted by: Michael at Dec 29, 2006 3:25:23 PM

This wont happen... I made the rumor up

fname lname to mathowie+pvrbl.
Hello.
"Apple will be licensing TiVo patented technology for iTV." also the name iTV has been changed to Mac Media Capsule
-
Matthew Haughey to me
Hmm, that sounds pretty interesting but the TiVo inclusion seems kind
of hard to believe. Got any more details on it or anything I could
point to online to back it up?

Matt
-
fname lname to matt
Matt.
The fog will clear in January.

Posted by: nah at Jan 1, 2007 4:07:48 AM

I think that some sort of partnership with Tivo would be a good idea...

I own an El Gato HD device and yes it is cool... but... for live cable TV and premium channels, you can only do that with CABLECARD (in the USA). So, as cool as a concept Eye TV is, in reality, for HD TV owners, it is next to useless because you can't use it for premium content. Microsoft and Win Vista has the OCCUR, a CABLECARD attachement for a Win MCE or Home Server. This will allow MS to give its users the abilty to watch and record premium HD content on their platforms. As cool as the iTunes store is, it is still not a repacement for cable and broadcast TV. No matter how superior the OS and applications are on the Apple side, it is going to be lacking a huge capability in not being able to record or play back this HD content. So... Tivo with its S3 box makes a logical addition to the Apple environment. It is already licensed and approved HD CABLECARD set top box. I have been deploying serveral in NYC and they do seem to work great. Apple just needs the abilty to access the Tivo's hard drive as some sort of share point and then the iTV, or whatever it is going to be called, can be used to play back this content remotely.

Right now this capability can be had by any Joe that gets a Vista based box with the OCCUR card and and MCE... such as the XBOX 360. If Appel doesn't have this same capability, I just don't see them being able to compete in that market segment.

Posted by: Tom at Jan 8, 2007 2:33:19 AM

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