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Quit saying "tivo" when it isn't a TiVo

I know I'm being a bit of a stickler here, but last week on Pimp My Ride, they opened the show by saying they'd stick hi-def TiVo into a guy's van. I watched closely knowing that's no easy task and unsurprisingly, even though you hear the word "TiVo" in the episode about half a dozen times, it most definitely wasn't TiVo.

Here's a clip of the episode, showing the installation segment that includes this "tivo" (embedded flash video):

If you look closely, you can see DirecTV (screenshot right) in the menus as they install this mobile satellite system (another quibble: it doesn't do HD). The box he keeps referring to as a TiVo is actually LG's LRM-519 (screenshot lower right) which looks like a standard def DVR with a DVD burner in it, running Microsoft software (talking to a standard DirecTV receiver since it can't decode DirecTV signals on its own). There is no actual TiVo software or hardware of any kind involved in this setup.

My point in explaining all this is that this Pimp My Ride segment shows the popularization of "TiVo" to the point at which any DVR is called a "TiVo" by salesmen, customer service reps, and now TV personalities. I know companies don't like it when they become so popular and ubiquitous that their name becomes generic (see: xerox, kleenex) but I'm especially worried about TiVo becoming generic because the experience of using a TiVo versus anything else is much different.

I get tons of email from dissatisfied cable and satellite customers that were offered a "TiVo" and ended up with a buggy, hard to use standard company-provided DVR. I've even heard a story of a family friend signing up to DirecTV, insisting on a combo TiVo/Satellite box (they'd used one before and liked it) and being assured they would receive a TiVo unit. When an installer showed up with the R15 device and argued that it was "the same as TiVo" the customer halted the install, complained to DirecTV, and is considering further action against DirecTV.

I know on the one hand it's a testament to how great a product/service is when people use it as a generic term but in the case of TiVo it seems to be leading to a lot of customer confusion. I could see the day when TiVo goes after other companies that promise you a tivo over the phone or in a store and then deliver a generic DVR.

by Matt Haughey July 12, 2006 in Op-Ed

Comments

Just last week I had to stop a friend who was about to sign up with DirecTV in order to get a TiVo. I told her to make sure they had TiVos and not thier own DVR. She said that when she spoke witha rep earlier in the day they kept saying "tivo" but when she called back after my warning they confirmed that they offer a "plain old", non TiVo DVR.

Posted by: Michael at Jul 12, 2006 8:50:48 PM

Holy crap, they really do say "tivo" a lot in that clip. You'd think the producers would be more concerned about that.

Posted by: Myles at Jul 12, 2006 9:11:30 PM

While they're obviously generalizing here, in this case it only helps TiVo. Most viewers don't catch the fact that it's not really a TiVo being put in and if the cool guys in pimp my ride install TiVo, what am I [the viewer] going to buy? TiVo =)

Now if they showed how that piece of sh!t that they actually installed worked and then called it a TiVo, I'd have a problem with it.

Posted by: Kesey at Jul 12, 2006 9:15:09 PM

I agree with Kesey.

Also, I've always seen that as one of the best forms of flattery (i.e. Kleenex, Coke, etc. are generic terms for a whole type of product).

Posted by: just_jeepin at Jul 13, 2006 5:19:10 AM

It's not that the companies don't like it - it's great when everyone calls everything a TiVo because it's free publicity. The problem is that they can lose their trademark. If the word "tivo" becomes so ubiquitous in the language that it is synonomous with DVR, they will lose the trademark.

Check out the wikipedia page on trademark to see their explanation of "genericide":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

Posted by: Tara at Jul 13, 2006 5:25:24 AM

Tara: Yeah, I remember hearing that about Google .. they were (and maybe still are) worried that when someone says 'Hey, Google ' that they'll eventually lose thier trademark.

I don't watch Pimp My Ride that often (read: ever), but for some reason I had it on during this episode trying to kill time on a saturday afternoon, and I had to rewind (on my ACTUAL TiVo) and wonder if that was a new(er) menu, or a HD -version of the menu or something. Guess not.

Posted by: Brandon at Jul 13, 2006 5:35:57 AM

I agree with Matt. Here's an example: my mom and stepdad have a Comcast cable box with DVR. My mom will occasionally say she has to record something on her TiVo, and I'll stop her mid-sentence to say, "No, you're going to record something on your DVR. You don't own a TiVo." Tough love is sometimes necessary. :)

Brandon: I use Google as a verb, but I use it initial capped with the specific intent of using www.google.com to search for something. If I told you to Google something, and you said you couldn't find it, my first question is always "Did you use Google?" Inevitably, the answer is no.

Posted by: Joe Hass at Jul 13, 2006 6:07:35 AM

It may be free pub for Tivo, but it also waters down the meaning. Think of it: John Doe has a CrapTacular DVR from his CableCo. John tells his friend Jim Jones to come over and watch his "Tivo" and all Jim sees is the CableCo DVR. Jim now (A) thinks that that is all a Tivo is, and (B) thinks the place to get a Tivo is his CableCo.

Second...Dish Network pulled this on me back when I switched to DirecTV. I told them one of the reasons I was switching was that I wanted Tivo. "We have Tivo," the retention specialist assured me. "ACTUAL Tivo?" I asked. "Oh yes, it's great," she replied. "You mean Tivo brand, and not just a DVR, right?" I asked again, knowing full well that Dish didn't have Tivo. "Well, it's just like Tivo," she said.

Gahhhh.

Posted by: Chris Heer at Jul 13, 2006 6:49:56 AM

That is correct, it is incredible one tend to believe it going to receive a rabbit and they send you a cat. Though, some DVRs offer many features like TiVo offer, they are still very inferior compared to the whole bunch of thing TiVo DVRs have. The real TiVo control remote is also excellent. I would never attempt to change my TiVo for a generic again, not even for free.

Posted by: Jose Galindo at Jul 13, 2006 7:56:34 AM

Better get the Kleenex, Jello, Band-Aid, Aspirin, Kool-Aid, Frisbee people on the phone since their products suffer the same usage problem.

Its just one of those things, when the name of your companies product line becomes senonomous with a technology or product you just suck it up and move on. Tivo got the free advertising on the show, not the generic DVR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark

Posted by: Ron McAdams at Jul 13, 2006 8:03:01 AM

This is something that TiVo has had to deal with for a long time. I always correct my friends when they call their crappy cable company DVRs a TiVo. Annoying.....

Posted by: Alex at Jul 13, 2006 8:16:48 AM

But how many people know Escalator started as a trademark name (belonging to Otis Elevator Company) and they lost it because they didn't police it's useage?

-J

Posted by: JasonR at Jul 13, 2006 9:17:06 AM

Why are you people whining? Whether or not you like it, Tivo has trancended its brand and become synonymous with DVR technolgoy. Sure, it's sad that the "leading" DVR company sells way less boxes than the "imitators" (ex: Motorola or whomever supplies the STB to cable companies) but hey, that's life.

Do you kvetch when you xerox a document but the machine you are using isn't made by Xerox corporation?

Or, to you moan when you ask for a Kleenex and are handed some paper made by another company?

Deal, monkeys.

Posted by: Stop Whining at Jul 13, 2006 9:56:58 AM

Well my point in "whining" is that someone can walk into a Best Buy, see a real TiVo, use it, and want it, then ask their cable company for a TiVo and have the cable company send over a lackluster DVR that shuts itself down, forgets to record shows, and has audio that cuts out.

That person will think TiVos aren't all they're cracked up to be and probably never buy a real TiVo. It harms TiVo as a company when other companies ride on their coat tails with inferior products.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Jul 13, 2006 10:11:51 AM

Have any of you (Matt, or the posters) actually TRIED the LG LRM-519? Brand issues aside, before you start bashing a product, you may actually want to try it out. The LRM-519 is very easy to use (compared to many "generic" DVRs,) and has many advantages over TiVo:
1. No subscription cost!
2. Burns DVDs much faster than TiVo
3. Can burn Dual-Layer DVDs
4. Can record to External USB hard drives (no more cracking open your DVR to add storage)
etc.

I am a very satisfied LG customer, and hope people actually explore the market before blindly bashing other products.

Posted by: try it before you bash it at Jul 13, 2006 11:06:40 AM

I use to be in the more people calling DVR's Tivo's is good for Tivo camp. But then I actually had to switch to a DVR because I couldn't get OTA HD in my area and I wanted HD. Oh my God. No need to rehash since you gets tons of emails like this . Cable co. DVR carp, junk, piece of bleep etc, etc. But now everyone I know says Tivo when referring to their crappy DVR. Still ok with me. Then I looked at Tivo financials. I am truly concerned that the best DVR by miles, miles, and miles ...Tivo, may actually go away due to genericizing of the term Tivo. This sucks. I have been waiting patiently for a Series 3 but the way things are going I don't think there will be a Series 4.
This is partially Tivo's fault. They sat on the sidelines (the just went dual tuner a few months ago. Talk about late), while everyone else caught up. They needed a two pronged attack. The did a great job of pushing a more consumer friendly cheaper model to get as many Tivo out there as possible but the did a poor job of putting out high-end(dual tuner, HD, large Hard Drives, etc) models to keep the enthusiast interested. Most sophisticated enthusiast have moved on to other DVR', home built systems etc.
Tivo has to get this customer back. This is the customer that will say "no, I want a real Tivo, not this junk".

Posted by: Wendell at Jul 13, 2006 11:08:44 AM

Matt isn't just talking about popular usage - he's talking about other companies directly claiming to sell Tivo. When i call Microsoft up, they don't offer to sell me an iPod. And when I call HP up, they damn sure don't tell me how fast their new copier can Xerox things. When you buy Safeway Generic Gelatin Dessert it doesn't say Jell-o on the box. Claiming to sell a specific trademarked product and delivering something different (inferior or not) is a serious violation of customer trust and probably illegal. Talk about bait and switch.

[derail]Does anybody actually use Xerox as a genericized word anymore? I don't think I've heard anyone use it to refer to the machine or the process for at least 5 years. In fact, I believe our current copier at work actually *is* a Xerox, but nobody calls it that. All I hear is, "I hate the f*&%^ing new copier," or "Can I make a copy of this?"[/derail]

Posted by: Rory at Jul 13, 2006 11:32:59 AM

The DirecTV Tivo has had dual tuners since I first bought one almost 5 years ago(I now own 3. 2-Series 2 and 1-Series 1). The haven't sat on the sidelines at all they created the whole stadium. Anyone who had used Tivo (real Tivo) will stand by the fact that it is the best DVR out there period. The extra storage of an external drive or the abilty to burn dual-layer DVDs is only useful if the DVR properly records the shows in the first place. This is where Tivo has excelled for years.

Posted by: Has had dual tuners for years at Jul 13, 2006 1:34:40 PM

It won't matter after Judge Folsom awards TiVo treble damages and slaps an injunction on further distribution of the EchoStar DVR. TiVo already won the patent suit back in April. Either EchoStar will play nicely (read: pay TiVo license fees), or they won't be in the DVR biz at all.

Ditto for every other DVR maker out there. This case is the tilting point.

Bottom line: Call any DVR a TiVo, it does not matter. If it time-warps, TiVo will be getting paid. TiVo will be fine.

Posted by: TiVo investor at Jul 14, 2006 8:43:53 AM

I hope the last post is "Tivo will be fine", and that Tivo will get paid etc. I truely love this product is has changed my life blah blah, and I hope it sticks arround.
Rory post about Tivo not sitting on the sidelines is exactly whats wrong with Tivo. They beleive people like Rory who think they are doing everything right etc. My orgianl comments still stands. Tivo took way to long to make a SA duel tuner, or HD, or larger Hard Drives, or the other features that people get from hacks that all the time. I will buy a series 3 as soon as I am allowed cost but have a large gap to close.

Posted by: Wendell at Jul 14, 2006 1:47:19 PM

I don't believe that I said any of that, Wendell. I think you're confusing my comment with the one below it.

I absolutely agree that Tivo has dragged it's feet on many important features (I'm still waiting for TivoToGo for Mac). My post was simply pointing out that it is wrong for other companies to tell customers that they have a Tivo when what they really have is some Motorola POS. Tivo's problems are myriad at this point, and this is only one of them. I admire Tivo Investor's optimism, but I'm not convinced that they'll survive the appeals process for the Echostar case. Only time will tell...

Posted by: Rory at Jul 14, 2006 4:41:32 PM

I think 'tivo' as a verb is fine. I often 'tivo' shows on my replay.

Posted by: MikeO at Jul 18, 2006 12:07:31 PM

i used to be bothered by people calling their DVR tivo too... but the fact of the matter in this day and age is that Tivo is getting quickly outnumbered by cheaper alternatives that do the same thing... people using the name Tivo to describe their cheaper imitation may be the only thing that keeps Tivo in people's minds.

Posted by: ddd a n e at Jul 20, 2006 8:37:23 PM

Come on .....I mean I'm a pretty big tivo fan myself but you guys are taking brand loyalty just a little to far. I mean give me a break. And the guy that said he corrected his mom when she called her DVR a Tivo...Dude your mom should have back handed you...no offense.

Posted by: JB at Jul 21, 2006 3:55:09 PM

I get what you are saying Matt, and I agree that companies should not tell you you are getting a tivo when you are getting a different type of DVR, but in the common vernacular, "I tivoed it" beats "I recorded it on my DVR" by a country mile. First of all, many people still don't know what "DVR" means, but they know "tivo". Second, you sound hip and cool and with-it and cutting-edge when you "tivo something" and like a gear-head dork when you "record something on your DVR". I feel like buying a Linux t-shirt just for typing it.

Posted by: Dave Provost at Jul 24, 2006 7:39:41 PM

Oh, and...

"Thanks, MTV, for pimping my DVR!"

Posted by: Dave Provost at Jul 24, 2006 7:40:48 PM

And PLEASE stop calling this a PVRBlog when all you do is talk about TiVos!!!

Are you even aware of how many ReplayTV events/utils have happend/released and this blog is totally oblivious!

New Release of DVArchive 3.2
WiRNS
ReplayTV's PC DVR pricing/hardware announcement
IVSMagic

Posted by: Non Tivo User at Jul 25, 2006 5:26:02 AM

I agree I wouldn't correct my mom on it, but if DirectTV or Comcast is claiming to be selling you a TiVo and delivers something else, that's really bad. I'm no lawyer, but sounds like fraud or something to me.

Posted by: Rory at Jul 27, 2006 12:39:35 PM

I'd be more pissed off if I were LG than if I were TiVo in this scenario. LG most likely supplied that unit to MTV as a form of product placement, only to have the "talent" totally muck it up and promote a competing product. Talk about a marketing effort backfiring... the only thing that could be worse would be if he verbally trashed the LG brand.

Posted by: Reid Sorenson at Jul 29, 2006 9:01:30 AM

We love TiVo, and have used several others. So when my wife signed us up for DirectTV she confirmed with FOUR representatives that we were getting an actual TiVo box. The installer shows up and uncrates what is clearly NOT a TiVo box.

The installer (for god's sake!) gives us a blank look and says, "this is the new TiVo."!!! As if we were idiots. Much ranting to customer service later, we have returned that ridiculous piece of crap and purchased a standalone TiVo. The supervisor's supervisor claimed to understand the DVR/TiVo distinction, but kept slipping and calling their boxes TiVo! I think it's their in-house terminology!

BTW, TiVo interface trumps HD. No contest.

They SOLD us TiVo, very specifically, and over and over. It's as though we ordered a Porsche and they delivered a Ford. "Uh, Ford is the NEW Porsche." Because they both have wheels. This has got to constitute fraud, right?

Posted by: Jay Robinson at Aug 2, 2006 6:37:10 PM

You cannot blame Tivo, for DirectTV’s lies. And Yes! That is absolutely fraudulent on the part of DirectTV, they should KNOW better than that! The word “tivo” is now in our lexicon, but that does NOT give DirectTV carte-blanch to flat out lie to their customers. Promising one thing and delivering another is FRAUD!!!! And I do believe that the U.S. Courts would agree.

DirectTV made their bed, now they can live with it. They wanted to detached themselves from Tivo. They didn’t want to pay Tivo any money for their rights or services, and they screwed 10’s of thousands of customers, out of thousands of dollars on equipment that they NO LONGER support.

Now DirectTV wants to argue about semantics?? Whatever. There is ONLY one bad guy here in this situation!!! And it ain’t Tivo.

Posted by: crlake at Aug 8, 2006 2:24:58 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with this comment: "And PLEASE stop calling this a PVRBlog when all you do is talk about TiVos!!!"
I have used a number of DVRs and like my Dish one just fine. For lots of reasons.

Okay, on target: I never hear anyone use TiVo in the generic. Everyone I talk to knows what I mean when I say DVR or PVR. Those who don't, also don't know what I mean when I say "TiVo."

If there is a generic way to reference this, its "tape." Really. "I taped that, but I'll be sure to watch it tomorrow." On their PVR.

(Oh, and I also know few who say Xerox for photocopy, Coke for non-coke pop, etc.)

Posted by: shoobe01 at Nov 20, 2006 8:14:41 AM

I kind of agree with you all but for a different reason. I would never refer to my lg lrm as a "tivo." I paid (a "one time") 400/ebay for my lrm 2 years ago and have been enjoying it ever since. I never miss a program/game, can send it to any computer in my house, can burn programs fast on it's dvd burner, and can listen to any mp3 on any pc over my living room sound system. Plus all the standard dvr features. I'm sure, by now, tivo probably has a few more bells and whistles (?), but my machine does everything I need it to and I don't pay a cent. So why would I ever call it a tivo, lol???

Posted by: lg lrm user at Sep 24, 2007 5:01:11 PM

Well...it is a year and a half later, and I doubt much has changed. Tivo still seems to be the moniker attached to any DVR, for better or worse.

Posted by: Todd Lokken at Apr 10, 2008 8:36:47 AM

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