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Time Warner and the upcoming Tivo Series 3

Strange news from ConsumerFury.com: Time Warner Cable blocking customers from using upcoming Tivo Series 3!.

I would attribute this most likely to an uninformed tech or customer service drone. They're most likely only familiar with cable cards in TV slots and I could understand them saying they won't install or help you with your Series 3 TiVo but the bit about not allowing them to access their network is kind of crazy. Also, does Time Warner do HD cable in Raleigh, NC?

I'll put this in the unconfirmed rumor pile for now, but it will be interesting to see how cable companies react to sudden requests for Cable cards and the return of set top boxes. I can't imagine they'll be happy about the lost revenue.

Update: looks like this has been resolved and was pretty much what I suspected: customer service reps unfamiliar with the upcoming TiVos making claims they shouldn't have.

by Matt Haughey July 25, 2006 in News

Comments

Of course there's High Def support in Raleigh, NC. As to the rest, I certainly hope that's not the case.

Posted by: Matt Philmon at Jul 25, 2006 9:51:27 PM

Another quick comment... this would certainly NOT be without precedence. I've already emailed my local Time Warner provider. Here's the link:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/29/no-cablecard-for-windows-media-center-until-longhorn-probably/

Posted by: Matt Philmon at Jul 25, 2006 10:07:17 PM

My understanding is that cable companies MUST provide CableCARDs for any approved host device. The Series3 is an approved host device, like it or not.

Matt - Actually they precedent you cite *supports* TiVo. There is no CableCARD for MCE until Vista because MS had Vista, and the tuner module, certified by Cable Labs. That was MS's choice, they did not have XP MCE certified for CableCARD, just Vista. TiVo had the Series3 certified in the same way.

Posted by: MegaZone at Jul 25, 2006 11:37:27 PM

Yes, Time Warner provides HD and HD DVR service in Raleigh.

Posted by: Justin at Jul 26, 2006 6:44:47 AM

Good point Megazone. I guess what I was trying to point out was that the "powers that be" were successful in stopping the inclusion of cablecard in a "PVR computer" of sorts. While TIVO is a closed device, it's still a computer. It doesn't really matter though. Ultimately, legally, they can't block us. I can't wait to get my Tivo Series 3. I've cleared the credit cards and will be prepared for a new TV and new TIVO in the fall!

Posted by: Matt Philmon at Jul 26, 2006 8:26:19 AM

Good points.

Michael Locker MD

Posted by: Michael Locker MD at Jul 26, 2006 11:55:42 AM

They have to install a CableCARD card in your TiVo.

There is no way they can stop TiVo from "using their network".

However, CableCARD v1 (which is what TiVo supports) does not support switched digital video (a way to send channels to your home) which TW is testing in many of their markets.

So TiVo may not be able to tune digital channels TW uses SDV to broadcast.

(TW is not allowed to broadcast HD locals using SDV)

Posted by: chris at Jul 26, 2006 12:26:22 PM

is the Series3 still going to get ATSC over the air tuners?? I get my HD over the air and the rest of the junk on Comcast cable, and I'm crossing my fingers they've not changed plans as far as the ATSC tuners.

Posted by: Mike at Jul 27, 2006 5:19:10 AM

Yes, the Series3 has 2 ATSC tuners for OTA HD. They also have 2 tuners for basic cable and 2 tuners for CableCARD/digital cable.

You can record 2 shows at once, any combination of those 6 tuners. You can also watch any recorded show while 2 shows are currently recording.

Posted by: chris at Jul 27, 2006 5:45:41 AM

Isn't that great? Google just inserted a huge graphic add for Tiome Warner services right above this.

"Get Time Warner Cable and Get It All"

hahahah

Posted by: Bob at Jul 27, 2006 11:24:54 AM

I clicked the headline expecting some sort of beta test or something, but no. Instead I get a slap in face telling me my cable co will not support a device that I have been waiting on for years. For their sake, it better not be true.

Posted by: Wolf at Jul 27, 2006 2:07:46 PM

Like the consumerfury site advised, I sent an email asking about the Time Warner NC stance on Series 3 to my local Time Warner and to the FCC.

Just takes a couple of minutes, and worth it if you believe in choice. Can you imagine the uproar if Time Warner only supported "Time Warner" televisions? Well, in effect, this is what they are trying to do with DVR.

Just shows serious arrogance and greed.

Posted by: Amazingly Arrogant at Jul 27, 2006 2:18:21 PM

I got a response back from my local Time Warner. It is below. It may be that they, at least at this level, don't realize that the Series 3 is a certified cable card device. I asked for clarification and cited the FCC regulations document.

>

Posted by: Amazingly Arrogant at Jul 27, 2006 10:23:22 PM

Here's that response:

Thank you for e-mailing Time Warner Cable Customer Care ! We apologize for the inconvenience. Time Warner customers do have the option of using TiVo devices, however, we do not provide any support for the equipment. We do offer Cable Cards, but they are for use in televisions with Cable Card ports, not TiVo equipment. If there are any additional questions, please contact our Sales Department at 1.866.491.3045, Option 2.

Again, we do apologize for any inconvenience.

Thank you for choosing Time Warner Cable.
Sincerely,
Time Warner Cable Customer Care

Posted by: Amazingly Arrogant at Jul 27, 2006 10:24:05 PM

I realize everyone wants to get their series 3 up and running as soon as possible but you are only going to aggravate yourself by emailing the cable company. The average cable company employee (even mangers) do not know that the series 3 is a cable card device. They are reading(or writing) from a scrip that says they don't "support or provide service for Tivo blah blah blah". I bet they don't even know a what a series 3 is. Them a Tivo, is a Tivo, is a Tivo. Remeber these are the same people who try to tell you that they ahve "tivo" when you try to leave them because of their crappy DVR. Here is what you should do
The nanosecond the series three is available call you cable company and order 2 cable cards. (here in Seattle both cable companies provide them for $5 per each but I know some companies don't charge.
Run, don't walk to your local store and pick up a couple of series 3's or better yet order it online. I know Amazon.com will have (full disclosure I work there)
Insert cable cards and enjoy.
Yes the cable company is not going to come out and install your cable card. But you don't need them to. That is the beauty of cable card.

Posted by: Wendell at Jul 28, 2006 8:54:50 AM

I had a better experience, I think. Here's my response:

Dear Mr. Philmon,

Thank you for writing. We will allow our CableCARD to be installed in
the TIVO Series 3. If you have any further questions or problems, please
feel free to E-mail us again or contact our Technical Support line for
further assistance.

Sincerely,

------
Time Warner Cable Charlotte
High Speed Data Services
24-Hour Technical Support Help Line
http://www.timewarnercable.com/charlotte/

Posted by: Matt Philmon at Jul 28, 2006 11:15:47 AM

Has there been any response from TiVo about this? It seems to me like they would be upset about TWC effectively barring their device from usage (and consequently sale) in a number of markets, including the largest city in the US.

Posted by: Mindaika at Jul 28, 2006 11:25:27 AM

I think Wendell is right. If a cable card is a cable card is a cable card, then whether TWC says they are only for televisions does not matter. The whole basis of the technology is to have an open device standard.

The other thing that had me worrying was the SDV issue. The thought is that if TWC changed their signaling to this, then the Series 3 would not be able to tune the channels. But then I thought, if TWC did this, wouldn't their own, already deployed set top boxes have a problem too?

Changing this signal would force them to update their own boxes, right?

I have to remember, this is the same company that made a big stink about having a network DVR, thus removing the need of a DVR in the home. Yeah, I'm sure that's still in the works too.

Posted by: Amazingly Arrogant at Jul 29, 2006 8:57:28 AM

With the Series 3 Tivo's w/cablecard support, will we still be able to access On Demand and PPV Content? If not i'll have to keep my cable box as well...

Posted by: GameJerk at Jul 29, 2006 3:50:43 PM

Regarding "TWC effectively barring their device..." -- I don't think they are "barring" it from being used.

What they're clearly saying is that they will not come to your house and stick the CableCARD in your TiVo Series3 for you, and get you all set up that way. They're apparently happy to stick it in a TV, but not a TiVo.

What's NOT clear, however, is what it means to not "support" a CableCARD in a TiVo Series3. If I call them and say my picture is fuzzy or I'm not getting all the channels or whatever, will they come out and take a look -- even though the CableCARD is in a TiVo, and not a TV?

Posted by: Andy at Jul 31, 2006 8:34:56 AM

No, you can't access OnDemand and PPV using the CableCARD, since they are uni-directional.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/sandiego/products/cable/cablecard.html

Cable companies love to point this out, in hopes that you hang onto their box.

Posted by: Andy at Jul 31, 2006 8:36:06 AM

I thought the TIVO series 3 can support v2 cable cards. Isn't v2 cards bi-directional? I read something on this a long time ago so I could be way off here. :-)

Posted by: Steve at Aug 3, 2006 9:12:23 AM

TWC in NYC will not allow you to get a cable card without them coming out and installing it (with the fee that goes along with that of course). If I get any problems, my plan is to have them install in my plasma then I can pull it out and put it in my Tivo Series 3.

-Brett

Posted by: Brett at Aug 3, 2006 9:32:00 AM

After sending an e-mail inquiry, I got a voicemail on Friday from Time Warner telling me that I could use a TW cable card in a Tivo Series 3, or any device that accepted a cable card.

Posted by: Justin at Aug 7, 2006 11:23:40 AM

TW Cable supplying cablecards and "supporting" them are two different things.

TW came out and installed a cablecard in my Philips LCD TV. It didn't work.Installer said that they had a Sony TV in their shop and got to work out the bugs with that brand but had never installed on a Philips.

Installer speculated it was because cablecard was "not ready for prime time." The Philips tech support of course claimed it was a cablecard problem as well. I can't in good faith plunk down the cash for a Series 3 if I don't know if the cards will work in it. In any case, I'm happy with my Pioneer Tivo DVD recorder. The resolution is good for my needs.

BTW, I was told by the HDBeat guys that the Series 3 is compatible with Cablecardv2.

Posted by: Terrie at Aug 11, 2006 8:28:16 PM

I also have a Philips. I also had a TW guy come out who had no idea what he was doing. I also paid their fee of $49 for the 'installation'. What an idiot!
Here's my issue - I can live with not getting all of my stations via the card (Boom, ESPN HD, Nogin for the Kids, seems like a lot of stuff over 120) - but don't make up a service fee for it. I just realized you don't pay a fee for them to install an HD box. But I was excited about getting my new card. And it's not as clear of a picture.
I will keep it and wait for the v2 to happen. It is still nicer than an ugly box AND cheaper per month. Who needs Nogin anyway?

Posted by: Chappy at Aug 30, 2006 10:54:07 AM

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