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Hobotech, TiVos for Aussies

When people are restricted from something they really want, they tend to go to great lengths to get it. In Canada, TiVo wasn't available for a long time and sparked a whole project devoted to making it work.

Recently I stumbled upon Hobotech, a company in Australia that takes old Series 1 TiVos, adds networking, and converts them from NTSC to PAL format. They've got their own Guided Setup and their own guide for channels and show times put together by volunteers.

TiVo's legal team might look at this entire world of covert TiVo operations and  think "infringement!" but I can't help but look at all these hacks and the length people go to make a TiVo work where it wasn't designed and appreciate the output of these resourceful bastards. That's some impressive TiVo hacking, HoboTech and OzTiVo, keep on innovating.

by Matt Haughey July 25, 2006 in TiVo

Comments

Unfortunatly Matt, you seem to have been sucked into the PR of Hobotech.

Hobotech have only just recently started selling 2nd hand TiVo's in Australia taking advantage of the efforts of countless volunteers in our community, without offering anything in return.

Hobotech had nothing to do with the PAL hack, Service Emulator or current TV guide.

It certainly is a credit to the people who really made TiVo a reality in Australia many years ago. Like Tridge who pioneered PAL on the US series 1's, or Dennis from the Canadian group who developed the emulator, or WKT for running the emulator and TV guide systems for no finacial reward.

Adam.

Posted by: Adam Johnson at Jul 25, 2006 5:18:51 PM

I understand there's always friction in hacking communities when someone decides to capitalize on the ideas of the group, but I don't believe the alternative is fair -- that anyone that wants a device must join a hacking group, read every message ever posted, and have enough linux/hardware skills to hack their own device.

I value my time and I'm willing to pay someone to go through the motions that would take me months of experimenting to get right. I've seen this in the DirecTiVo hacking circles and even stuff like open wifi access point hacking. People that helped develop the hacks, hardware, and code get pissed when one member starts selling a pre-done product for $100 that builds on their work, but again, I don't think it's fair to require everyone to do it themselves.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Jul 25, 2006 5:25:36 PM

I think you missed the point Adam was making. I'm not aware of any real friction between the "hackers" and Hobotech. Adam's point, I think, and certainly mine, is that Hobotech were not responsible for any way in getting Tivo to work in Australia. They didn't develop the program guide, nor do they run it.

Personally I have no problem with people trying to make money out of something like this (I didn't contribute anything to getting the guide running in Australia either, so I don't really have the right to an opinion either way). But credit where credit is due - and very little is due to Hobotech.

Posted by: jon at Jul 25, 2006 5:39:56 PM

Well, in the TiVo upgrade hard drives arena, I don't think most of the people offering prepared drives helped write the code.

I don't think everyone should know how a TiVo Boot disc works or how to compile the tools that make up a TiVo Boot disc. A lot of people just want a larger hard drive in their TiVo and should have an option to pay someone to do it for them.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Jul 25, 2006 6:42:58 PM

And just to be clear, I guess I didn't mean to credit them as if they invented things because is seems like OzTiVo is the group for that, but I think it's cool that someone is selling TiVos where they were never designed to work. I'm impressed with OzTiVo's resolve at getting around the limitations and making it all work.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Jul 25, 2006 6:44:44 PM

The point I was trying to make is just as Jon has said. Credit where credit is due.

From the way I read your article with 'Their own guided setup' and 'Their own guide' it sounded like Hobotech were responsible for everything, when in fact they are responsible for none of the achievements to date and have done nothing to benefit the community since they started selling used TiVos.

'Their own guided setup' and 'Their own guide' have nothing at all to do with Hobotech and the volunteer communities which are developing and maintaining these resources recieve no support or assistance from Hobotech.

Even the Tuner conversion from NTSC to PAL that you link to is not done by Hobotech, but by a long standing member of the OzTiVo community who has dedicated his time developing hardware improvements and repairing faulty units.

While I don't agree with people making a buck from work done by volunteers, there is no friction between the OzTiVo community and Hobotech. Though it would be nice if some of the commercial ventures did something that benefits the community that they live off.

Adam

Posted by: Adam Johnson at Jul 25, 2006 6:46:23 PM

Hi!

My name's Ron Davis, I run Hobotech.com, and I would welcome the opportunity to to put some matters straight!

So, I never did anything for the TiVo community in Australia? Oh yeah?

1) For at least a year I was the sole Australian source for information on how to modify a TiVo for Australian use in terms that somebody who was not a Linux Guru could understand! Certainly tridge and his pals at linuxcare and the ANU did the pionering work, and I've always given them the fullest credit for it, but tridge's many other interests, especially Samba, prevented him from doing much to spread the word!

So I joined the US TiVo hacking community where for ages I was the sole Australian Poster, typically responding to 2 or 3 inquiries every day.

As a result I spent many hundreds, if not thousands, of hours assisting "newbies" to get set up, including some very well known to the ozTiVo community, such as Warren (WKT) who now runs the Guide data server, and Andrew Palm who created the ozTiVo Twiki website, and many others. If you check this post on the US community:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297418
you'll see that Aussie (me) has been an active member since Jan 2001, how many of you have a TiVo history stretching that far? And I used to have over 500 posts, not the miserable 40-odd it shows now, my post count got reset during a site re-org a couple of years ago. In addition, getting the (US) TiVo version 2.5.1 to work here was a joint effort between ther original ozTiVo-ers, Warren, Andrew and myself, I believe we even beat tridge on that one! (Apologies if I forgot anybody! Ed, didn't you do some work on V2.5.1 too?)

2) I wrote the first "howto" on how to fit a PAL tuner to a TiVo, astonishingly it still exsits on the minnie server at:
minnie.tuhs.org/TiVo/files/hardware/us/tuner/PalTuner.doc if anybody wants to check. I didn't invent the process, but I spent a lot of time testing it and planning it and checking everything with Bob Edwards of the ANU (the real pioneer of the hardware side) to make sure it was correct! It has of course long been superceded by the brilliant work done by Darren on the hardware, but I'd be surprised if even he didn't make use of it in his initial experimentations.

3) I was always DEAD AGAINST against the commercialisation of TiVo in Australia, as anybody who has been on the mailing list for some time will know only too well! (Read the mailing list archives for May 2005 if you're new to the group.) I only decided to do so in an attempt to bring about the downfall of a true "blow in" who really had done NOTHING AT ALL towards getting it going! He offered TiVos for prices which were demostrably excessive and then claimed to be doing it for no profit! I provided figures to substantiate that he would make considerable profit at his prices but the only way to prove it once and for all was to take him on in a commercial sense and beat him. After discussing this in private with the ozTiVo "elders" at the time the concensus was "go for it" so I did.

4) Every buyer of my TiVos gets *unlimited* free support to get it going, advice which would cost a bundle if charged my customary short term consulting rate, and which spares the group from the need to support them. (My "main" business is providing consulting advice to large organisations on IBM Mainframe issues, and I'm not cheap!) I even helped a totally blind person set up a TiVo for use 100% via TiVoWeb, which entailed obtaining and installing the Text to Speech software he uses, learning to use it, and spending dozens of hours determing if it was even possible and documenting the pitfalls he might encounter and ways around them. Had I spent that time on my consulting business (and I have more work than I can handle) I could have earned at least $3,000 for my time! Yet he paid just the same as anybody else! Would you call that a profiteering? (By the way, we eventually achieved 100% success and he is now a happy ozTiVo-er!)

5) Here's what you get for your $495.00... See if it seems like a rip-off to you!

a) One full checked and guaranteed Series 1 TiVo.
b) One brand new TiVo remote.
c) All necessary cables, again, all brand new.
d) One new, tested checked and installed Ethernet Card.
e) One new 250GB Hard Disk.
f) One complete set of Darren King's hardware mods, fully tested and guaranteed by him.
g) All packaged in a brand new box with proper original TiVo Styrofoam supports and posted anywhere in Aus, fully insured and registered for a flat $25.00. (I actually lose $20 when I send to WA!)

And all this is fully set up and tested, everything is guaranteed to work!

Go on, price out the components... Could you do it cheaper? And don't forget, because I deal in volume I pay full duty and GST on everything I import... You can't sneak pallet loads of TiVos past customs! And I collect and remit GST on every TiVo I sell, so $45.00 of that $495.00 price goes straight to the Government, and in the unlikely event that I ever make any profit at all then the full tax is paid on that too!

6) Nowhere do I claim any responsibility for the Guide Data, I always give credit to those who do the work, and even provide a link on my website encouraging others to get involved in maintaining it! From my website:
Q) What’s the story on Guide Data?

A) Guide data in Australia is a collaborative effort by a small but dedicated team of ozTiVo enthusiasts. Currently it is available for all Free To Air (FTA) and PayTV channels. There is no charge for this service. More help is always welcome keeping it accurate and you can join in! Log into ozTiVo’s Guide Data Central here and learn how you can help to improve it!

Note: Being a voluntary, user maintained service the guide data could cease at any time, but with 900+ users now regularly downloading it, that seems unlikely! Also, ozTiVo will cease providing the free guide data service if TiVo Inc ever commence providing a paid service in Australia.

(Hmm, I must remember to update that 900! We're well over 1,000 now!)

7) It has always been my intention to "donate" the customised guided setup code, including documentation thereof, to the ozTiVo community when I cease selling, I didn't initially because I didn't want the "opposition" to get their hands on it for obvious reasons (despite the fact that he disparages it and claims he could have done it himself). But that time is rapidly approaching... The novely of selling has worn off, I think I've proven my original point that prices of the "opposition" were excessive so it's time to toss it in anyway... Right now I have less than 10 TiVos left, and as soon as they're gone that's it. I'm out of the business of selling complete TiVos, so if you want one act quickly. Don't worry, I'm keeping sufficient spare parts to handle any warranty claims so you won't be left out in the cold, and all my surplus parts will go to my very good friend Darren King, so he'll be able to keep you going indefinitely!

Thanks for this opportunity to put my side of the case

Ron Davis (hobotivo@hobotech.com)

Posted by: Ron Davis at Jul 25, 2006 8:34:16 PM

My appologies to Ron at HoboTech. my bashing was aimed at the 'other' local supplier. There are 2 main suppliers of TiVo's in Australia. And I thought Ron ran the other company. All my comments were directed at that freeloader, not Ron at Hobotech.

I certainly do appreciate Ron's efforts in the early days getting OzTiVo to where it is today.

Unfortunatly there is no way I can change my comments, unless Matt can.

Adam.

Posted by: Adam Johnson at Jul 26, 2006 12:34:44 AM

Go for it!

I'm a satisfied Series 1 owner in the UK where we do get a *little* support. Well, for 10 quid - 20 USD a month - we get the TV schedules. But I had to fit my own ethernet cable, and do a little Tivo hacking to get TyStudio to work.

I would give various family members for a series 2 and cant wait till a series 3 box comes out. Is it likely to appear in the UK ? No.

So come on Tivo. You have a fantastic product. Get it worldwide!

---* Bill
http://www.billbuchan.com

Posted by: Wild Bill at Jul 26, 2006 4:11:53 AM

A little late... but still.

I bought a Tivo from hobotech some time ago not being able to find any other supplier at the time. Their backup service is exceptional. I had something go wrong (left channel audio went out) and the guy who fixed it did it over the easter long weekend - where else are you going to get service like that?

Posted by: Dr K at Aug 26, 2006 7:30:03 AM

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