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Zatz Not Funny: TiVo Sends Echostar Packing

Wow, from the news on Dave's site, it looks like TiVo won their patent suit against Echostar with TiVo's stock spiking, a $73million ruling, and a possible stop of all Dish Network DVR sales.

I've held off reporting about the case because I'm torn on the issue of software patents. Generally, I like the idea of novel patents in the material world (like actual objects), but in the software and web world, a lot of business processes and obvious ideas have been granted patents and companies have been known to strongarm their rivals with them. Patents in the Silicon Valley can be used as extortion against the competition. On the other hand, TiVo has pioneered a ton of novel concepts in home TV recording and certainly the major, original components of the TiVo OS are fair game for patent protection in my mind.

It looks like Echostar is going to appeal, but if this sticks, this could point to a lucrative future for TiVo in licensing its software to other companies producing DVRs.

by Matt Haughey April 13, 2006 in News

Comments

This is sad news... the idea of a DVR was not invented by Tivo, and Dish has not ripped off Tivo (there are MANY features still missing in E* DVRs like many other companies probably due to the fact they don't want to rip off Tivo).

Why this is sad is because if the decision sticks (E* can and will tie this up in court for a long time and they have DEEP pockets) it will force all companies to pay Tivo licensing to offer a DVR. This is bad because it will slow innovation (ala Microsoft) because everyone will have to use Tivo software or nothing! Don't get me wrong, I had a Tivo, the interface could've been less child-like but it did have some cool (extra) features.

Tivo didn't invent the DVR, they improved it... bottom line!

Posted by: Angelo at Apr 13, 2006 10:30:43 PM

Sorry, Angelo, you are wrong. Go read the patents in question. TiVo didn't patent the DVR, they patented certain DVR functionalities.

As for TiVo's victory somehow slowing innovation, that is a laugh. Who has been "innovating" in the DVR market, besides TiVo?

(sound of crickets chirping)

If it weren't for TiVo, who would Microsoft or the various PC based DVR projects have to copy ideas from?

And are you seriously going to argue that the pathetic cable company DVRs have ever done anything in the least bit innovative? Don't make me laugh.

TiVo is no Microsoft: TiVo invents and innovates. The patent system was intended to reward invention and innovation. Ergo, TiVo has finally gotten some justice from the patent system.

Anyone who thinks this decision is bad for consumers or bad for the DVR market is looking at this backwards and upside down. This decision is a good thing. Innovation and invention have been rewarded. The little guy, the good guy, has won something for a change. Power and money and size alone do not always win.

Huzzah!

Posted by: TiVo wins, we win at Apr 13, 2006 11:15:03 PM

The funny thing is that patents are actually intended to spread technology. The goal of patent law is to give the inventor a limited amount of time to recoop expenses and also reap rewards for their inventions. Then when the patenet expires society commoditizes the idea and will all benefit at lower prices.

Posted by: wendell at Apr 14, 2006 1:00:50 AM

Patents for actual technical implementions should be ok (ie, this is how I built a better mouse trap)

but for business processes and algorithms, they hinder innovation more than they help (ie, patenting the idea of trapping mice)

Posted by: Oscar at Apr 14, 2006 8:48:09 AM

Oscar....
I hold the patent on the idea of trapping mice. Please send me 5 cents via paypal for mentioning that in your post.

Posted by: Trapper at Apr 14, 2006 3:18:39 PM

As for crickets chirping -- GEMSTAR, anyone? Here is a company that can't innovate. Here is a company that relies on the ineptitude of the U.S. patent office ("display of online grids?!") and executes a business model nearing outright extortion.

If you want to talk about slowing innovation, don't talk about TiVo. Don't talk about Echostar. Talk about GEMSTAR (TV Guide).

Posted by: tom at Apr 15, 2006 12:07:46 AM

Many software patents are idiotic... Patenting one-click shopping? Sigh... Being able to play back video while recording something else is not so innovative. Something needs to be fixed or it's going to actual hurt innovation.

Posted by: jimrin at Apr 16, 2006 8:37:20 AM

Anybody who wants to can read the actual patent online. Here's a link:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6233389.html?highlight=tivo,tivo.0

It seems as though from reading it that the patent would NOT apply to DISH, or to any DirectTV, MOT, SA or other DVR that accepts already-encoded MPEG-2 transport streams. Yet Tivo won the case anyway.

In the patent there is a final claim that seems unclear as to what it is claiming that doesn't mention the process of encoding something. And there's some unclear verbiage in the patent that might have been correct before the patent lawyer mangled it (seems to suggest that ATSC, PAL etc are all parts of an MPEG-2 standard of some sort). But there certainly isn't a claim that says anything along the lines of "and all this applies even if the stream is already encoded".

Seems like the patent is too specific to be enforced against any of these guys. Yet they won anyway. Jury not smart enough? DISH unsympathetic? Who knows?

Posted by: Glenn at Apr 17, 2006 12:55:03 PM

Yes, TIVO is a wonderful product - but according to the news, the court case stated that the idea of recording TV on a local device for storage and playback, etc. was "patentable" and thus others doing the same thing were in violation of the patent. Huh? Anyone have a VCR? Maybe JVC had a patent on the VCR technology as well and if so, we can only HOPE that the patent for DVR technology is short lived because the new DISH dual output, 3 tuner DVR is the coolest innovation in a long time!!

Posted by: Matt at Apr 18, 2006 8:45:20 AM

Basic stuff here: You cannot patent ideas, only inventions (i.e. methods to do certain things). DVR makers are welcome to find other ways to do such functions. While a long time in the world of computing, Patents are limited in time (i.e. Prozac went generic).

Posted by: schalliol at Apr 19, 2006 8:17:31 PM

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