Things we love: the Harmony 880 remote

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Things we love: the Harmony 880 remote

Summary: Harmony's new 880 flagship remote is a virtual swiss-army-knife that can talk to your TiVo, TV, stereo, xbox, overhead fans, and even x10 lighting systems. Instead of worrying about various sources, you instead program macros through a wizard, so when you click "Watch TV" it turns 5 devices on and sets the tuners and options properly.

After using one for the past couple weeks on my wildly varied home theater system, I'm hooked and loving it. Full review after the jump.

For the first time in five years, I'm TiVoless. I've replaced my DirecTiVo with a Comcast HD DVR by Motorola (more on that in a future post), but the first thing that stuck out was the included universal remote couldn't talk to my A/V unit that controls speaker volume. Not being able to control volume from the remote was a deal-breaker, so I had to look elsewhere for a remote.

I've been watching Harmony for years, after first hearing their virtues from other designers that raved about the remote's simple interface. Their pricing used to be fairly high, but with a recent acquisition of the company by Logitech, they've opened up their lines to more affordable price points.

Their full line includes several models, each offering various levels of device support and each remote designed in it's own way. I decided to go for the gusto, getting their high-end 880 that offered all the bells and whistles.

Setup
Once you remove the remote from the packaging, insert the rechargeable battery (nice perk, never have to fish for AA batteries again), and charge it up a bit, you simply load some software on your PC or Mac and plug the included USB cable into the remote. The setup and customization process takes place online, through a special harmony website that offers simple wizards to help set up each device, your custom buttons, and your custom activities.

I was most impressed with the plethora of devices that Harmony's site keeps track of. I only remembered the manufacturer and part of the model number ("it's 250 or something") on my home theater receiver, but the Harmony site figured it out. Once the devices are entered, you walk through activities, in which I setup "Watch PVR", "Watch a DVD", "Play music CD", and "Play a Game" as my macros. In each, I could set where the audio goes to (xbox uses the TV speakers, movies and PVR, the surround sound receiver). Tweaking each device within an activity can sometimes be a pain because you're kind of forced into the wizard system and have to remember which question controls just the one aspect you want to change. My welcome screen is shown below.

Daily Use
I've had this device for a couple weeks and so far it's worked pretty well. For each activity, I realized I had to adjust the custom buttons that show up in the color screen area, and that's been a slight pain to get each one right. I've also found the wizards at the Harmony website are great for general stuff, but when you want to do something very specific or custom, it's sometimes tough within the wizard system -- it's kind of like corporation automated phone systems getting in the way when you just want to chat up your friend Carl in Accounting. I have a bit of a weird placement in my house, with the TV up on a wall now and the AV components down below, and the remote still turns on all the devices properly about 90% of the time. When my aim isn't quite right, there's a simple way to turn on the missed device by using the remote's help assistant.

The Good
I like the remote's familiar (and possibly infringing :) peanut shape, and I love the idea of making everything you do with your home entertainment center based on simple phrases. When I had to leave instructions for a babysitter to watch TV, it took up two pages of description and amounted to about a dozen separate steps. Now, you just hit "Watch PVR" and you're golden. It's nice to see a product that lets people attach normal human language instead of having to think like a robot ("source set to cable on device 1, source set to aux on device 2, and then source set to HDMI on device 3").

I was most impressed to find out the remote could issue codes my included default TV remote couldn't do. When switching between sources, I have to slowly step through each of the seven inputs, but the Harmony remote revealed there are remote codes to jump directly to each of the seven connections. That's pretty impressive and makes it work much smoother than even me switching devices by hand.

The Bad
As good as the remote's shape and ease of setup is, I don't like the buttons themselves. There seems to be no attention paid to users that want to do many basic things without having to look down. TiVo's controllers have always been great at that, giving each button a distinct shape, feel, and size. All the basic ffwd, rwd, rec, and pause buttons are similar shapes and sizes on the remote. If I close my eyes and pick it up, I could only tell you where the volume and channel changing buttons are, the rest aren't distinct at all. I've noticed some of the other Harmony remotes (like the 688) seem to have smarter button layouts and designs.

As I mentioned, the setup wizards on the Harmony site are great for first timers, but I've found them frustrating on revisits to tweak my current settings. I kind of wish there was an alternate, direct way to modify an activity without being forced to answer a zillion questions first. Lastly, the price is kind of high, though it certainly can be the last remote you ever need to buy with the included rechargeable battery and cradle, constantly updated website with codes, and the extensive device support.

Summary
This remote can talk to every IR device in my house, and I can set complex configuration tasks that fire from a single button. The remote won't gobble up batteries and can be updated for any new device I buy. I finally have a truly universal remote control and it's nice to reduce the coffee table clutter to just one remote. While the price is kind of high, it's lived up to my expectations and impressed me with its flexibility. I'm happy with it and I'll be suggesting it to all my friends in search of a truly universal remote.

Rating: I'd give it a 4 out of 5
Price: list is $250, about the cheapest I've seen it is around $235
Requires: Mac or PC with an internet connection and a USB port.
Buy it Now: I got mine from Amazon and it showed up a day and a half later.

by Matt Haughey September 28, 2005 in Product Reviews

Comments

I love the Harmony remotes. I got one for my folks when they went HD - Mom went through the roof when she went from needing one remote to watch TV to needing 5. Dad claims that the Harmony saved the marraige :)

Posted by: Eric Blair at Sep 28, 2005 4:44:09 PM

I love my 880. It handles my complex set-up perfectly (2 Tivos + HD DVR) and is simple for everyone in the house to use. However, I do have issues getting the remote to sit properly in the base and recharge. Still, I've had a bunch of remotes in the past and this one is the best

Posted by: Steve Frankel at Sep 29, 2005 5:54:53 AM

The Harmony 659 address the button issue you mention and can be had for a song these days (I paid around $150 for it back in the day). While the new design look really slick, I agree that the new buttons are hard to navigate blind. If only they cold marry that gorgeous color screen with the 659 physical buttons.

The harmony remotes are the single best piece of technology I've ever owned.

Posted by: Grover at Sep 29, 2005 7:18:22 AM

I bought an 880 a couple of months ago and love it! One of the best home theater purchases that I've made. I was amazed that the wizard included codes for all of the more obscure equipment that I own.

Posted by: sMoRTy71 at Sep 29, 2005 7:42:57 AM

one thing i don't get is: why on earth they changed to JAVA for their tray monitor.

Posted by: chuck at Sep 29, 2005 10:00:10 AM

I bought my 880 a couple weeks ago from pcmall.com for $177, no tax, no shipping. Still getting used to it, but it's working well.

Posted by: Mike at Sep 29, 2005 10:27:35 AM

I have a 688, and while I like it over all the quality has not been very good, I have gone through something like 3 or 4 returns for various problems and each time it costs me like 10 or so bucks to ship the dam thing to canada each time (WTF Logitech needs to fix that shit), then only to get another refurbed one with a different problem. Current my ff button doesn't work quite right (sticky) but I'm living with it not wanting to go through the whole thing again. The Harmony site used to have some better tools for seeing and hacking the codes directly, sadly they have taken all that away (not sure why, very frustrating if your are working with odd devices like IR keyboards). These devices are great, but they could be a lot better, especially given the high cost.

Posted by: Griffon at Sep 29, 2005 12:07:11 PM

Just to be clear, though I'm a bit down on Harmony and logitech for quality and support, the remotes are great tech.

Posted by: Griffon at Sep 29, 2005 12:08:46 PM

The 880 can be had for as little as $159 at buy.com if you catch one of their (seemingly random) unannounced price reductions. I've seen this happen three times.

Posted by: Opus at Sep 29, 2005 12:17:39 PM

Nice review & overview of use of these harmony remotes... I've had a 680 for a few weeks & like it a lot ($100 - tigerdirect). The 676/680 offer most of the advantages of the more expensive remotes & have better/more memorable hard button layouts IMO.
Agree that full website setup can be a plus (nice, big, easy device catalog) and a minus (many adjustments are "scripted" as noted... advanced setup pages (w/all params) would be nice). Also, *every* setup change is a trip to the website & full re-compile/download/install of the remote's EEPROM that usually takes about 10 mins. But once things are set & tweaked, remote works like a charm (YMMV).
BTW, often used buttons may not last forever on these things, so the $100 676/680 might make more sense (can get 2 of them for the price of these 8XXs).

Posted by: cfcubed at Sep 29, 2005 1:53:05 PM

I had the 659 that I got "for a song" as mentioned earlier, but I still had the problem with the buttons. They did not feel distincty at all with exception of the channel and volume buttons. In addition, for PVR, the play/pause/rew/FF buttons (which are used often for PVR!) are at the very bottom of the remote forcing you to both look and move your hand to get a thumb over the buttons. Mine had problems with buttons sticking. I use my cable co's Moxi DVR- and the harmony constantly bypassed the channel I wanted to land on (I wasn't holding the button either! I would tap channel up three times to go up three channels, and it would end up five channels up!)

The setup of the controller seems like it's easy- but only if you do everything exactly in order and know everything. This post mentions how the web UI can guess your model. I tried that with my TV with no success, but it wouldn't let me "start over" in the initial setup to insert the actual model number. It insisted on me choosing an incorrect model TV, or using my existing TV remote to map controls. By this time- I pulled the TV out and had already checked the model number, but I couldn't go back to enter it in! I even logged out to start over. On my return, it picked right up where I left off. I (didn't know it at the time) had to complete the initial setup and then add another TV (causing conflicts for my activities) then delete the old TV, and go setup my activities again. This was a painful process.

Tweeking your setup is a pain (as is mentioned here)- if you just want to map a button, you have to download the update to the remote which took forever on my (admittedly old) 659.

The webUI was painfully slow, but at least it worked right in Opera V8+.

I got it mainly because my wife has a hard time juggling remotes setup components. But she was just as uncomfortable with me telling her that she cannot EVER touch the actual devices cause that screws up the remote (it doesn't know you already turned on the DVD player to insert the disk). It's activity based- but most homes have remotes sitting next to where you are going sit down. I've always put the DVD in the player before heading to the couch- so it screws up the settings. Granted, you can tweek the setup to not power on the DVD player (or in general leave the DVD player alone) when you hit "watch a movie" but that kind of defeats the purpose of this remote since you now have to pay attention to that particular device instead of the just the "activity"

Bottom line- since the devices cannot communicate state to the remote (that's not what "Smart State" technology is!) it's still a complicated matter.

In addition, I thought the "H" frequently used channels was a waste of features. My DVR does a well enough job of that. I don't want to see programming information on my remote.

I took my device back. I REALLY wanted to be happy with this device.. I really honestly did. I still LOVE the idea of an activities based remote and think it's the way to go.

For more information, see:
My letter to logitech:
http://my.opera.com/usability/blog/show.dml/27661

Thoughts from Donald Norman (Usability Expert):
on the Harmony remote: http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/activity-centered_de.html

and on home theater:
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/the_perils_of_home_t.html

Posted by: Eddie at Sep 29, 2005 1:58:06 PM

Forgot another on of my favorites:

Jakob Nielson on remotes:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040607.html

Posted by: Eddie at Sep 29, 2005 2:08:06 PM

How does this thing handle changing audio modes on a reciever? Will it let you use the screen to select DD, PL2, etc, or does it expect you to memorize all the numbers? Which would be impossible since my Yamaha has like 30 different modes... It has a color screen, how much does it actually USE it? How configurable is it? If its used for display, I would assume you could do a lot with it or why bother, right? Like those Philips Neo Pronto things??

Posted by: Pip at Sep 29, 2005 2:40:53 PM

Pip-

I don't think this is up your alley. It's meant for "activity" based. Meaning "Listen to music" or "watch tv" You can select the particular device and start mapping or controlling the individual device with it, but that is not the remotes strong suit. This remote is a universal remote that is pretty easy to use if you don't like to tweak or use the 30 different modes of your reciever- also useful if you don't like to learn the macro programming languages in most other remote controls. In short- it's for the person that just wants to push a button with one remote to watch TV while not caring too much about the sound modes, TV display etc.

Posted by: Eddie at Sep 29, 2005 4:01:19 PM

If they were to use the back side of the remote as a phone that would work with my current cordless phone this would be a really great device. Talk about all in one!!!

Posted by: Andy at Sep 30, 2005 2:42:07 PM

My comments on 676/680 posted earlier, but a couple suggestions for those reading Eddie's 659 post:

1) re: "play/pause/rew/FF buttons at bottom of remote" - yep, an issue fixed in the 676/680 see pics:
http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14913&page=2

2)re: "I would tap channel up three times to go up three channels, and it would end up five" - Did you lower the # of IR repeats to 2 (from default of 3)(from support)? It is sort of hidden in the web menu tree, but fixed my similar double-volume up/down problem.

3) re: starting over on web site - I too had to bail on my first web setup & found it was easiest just to create a new account (lazy, I know:)

4) re: tweaking & web UI - Yep, takes time to find all those delays, etc., but I found that the defaults (on my 2nd account:) worked o.k. & only because I'm fussy I had to spend a few hrs really tweaking things. Overall, the web thing is kinda nice (no more #s for devices, eg. Sony:021,059,088,106,222, etc.)

5) re: programming Harmony Media button - Not obvious, but it can be done (mostly by bailing on your cable provider settings on web... there are a few posts on how to do this).

6) re: SmartState (on/off state knowledge in remote) - Yes, if the remote is to know the toggle power states of devices it controls, it must be the device toggling the state. Very easy to align w/the remote's Help button the couple times this has happened to me...

Fair to say that I did internet & logitech site searchs for info before I dove in (676|680 Harmony )... So I was aware of the DVR button placement, repeat fix & media button mapping trick. So, spent more time getting this remote to work but *very* happy with the results...

Posted by: cfcubed at Sep 30, 2005 4:21:01 PM

cooL!

Posted by: yeah at Oct 2, 2005 9:51:22 PM

I have an 880 that I bought about 2 months ago. It was fantastic while it worked (I have an excessively complicated AV rig and my wife was finally able to use everything with this remote). Unfortunately, a couple weeks ago, it just completely stopped charging. I'd had the flaky base problem (the remote doesn't sit right after about a week's use) but this was different. Apparently something about it failed so completely that it wouldn't recognize the battery at all. I'm currently waiting for my replacement so we'll see how that goes.

The remote itself is great as far as usability and features are concerned ... it's just that the quality control seems to be a bit weak and I felt like I had to jump through too many hoops to get any support.

Posted by: Thomas at Oct 4, 2005 1:28:04 PM

Guess it's time to ditch the old remote with all the buttons worn down.. :)

Posted by: steveb at Oct 5, 2005 4:15:46 PM

I've got the Harmony 768, a smaller and older version of the harmony line. I love it - and you can get it for $40-50.

More info at these links:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000084VGH/qid=1128632802/sr=8-8/ref=pd_bbs_8/102-9647842-0834529?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

http://www.remotecentral.com/sst768/index.html

Posted by: Peter at Oct 6, 2005 2:22:15 PM

cfcubed-

Thanks for the followup. I would have gotten a newer one- but I couldn't justify the extra 100 bucks or so. Nice to see there are work arounds for some of my concerns- I'll probably give it another try.

Posted by: Eddie at Oct 8, 2005 8:14:11 AM

This is definitely a great remote!

Posted by: Todd Lokken at Oct 8, 2005 9:32:09 AM

Hey, I just happened to get one of these too. Quick question for anyone who knows a quick answer: is there a way to get rid of the latency between button clicks? I'm used to flipping through my TiVo menu at lightning speed, but this thing slows down actions to something like .5 seconds. Is there a setting for this?

Posted by: Rex at Oct 9, 2005 4:55:56 PM

The big question I have as I prepare to buy at Buy.com (which has it listed for $219.00 and free shipping) can it be programmed for the covetted TiVo 30 second advance and 8 second rewind?

Thanks,
-MDS

Posted by: MDS at Oct 11, 2005 10:52:13 PM

Re: I'm used to flipping through my TiVo menu at lightning speed, but this thing slows down actions to something like .5 seconds. Is there a setting for this? -

I was able to tweak my 680 settings to get near-orig-TiVo-remote performance (close enough to be happy with & sometimes the Tivo itself has delays)... After searching for 680|676 tivo delay you'll see you may need to lower the interkey & interdevice delays (I'm using 100ms for both) & probably lower the IR repeats from default of 3 -> 2. Think the delays are in "More Options" for PVR - web homepage & IR repeats 3 -> 2 from Trouble Shooting - None of the above(?, deeper set of questions) - Sometimes... (search around for this, don't have the exact info handy).

Re: TiVo 30 second advance and 8 second rewind? - Yep, the 680 has >| & |< buttons you can program for 8-sec back & 30-sec forward (need to do the Select - 3 - 0 / etc. 30-sec hack command for the Tivo itself tho), so it behaves nearly same as orig remote.

I'm controlling a panny plasma, SA 8300HD cable/PVR, TiVo, DVD player & VHS player w/the 680 & am very happy with it. Only somewhat unavoidable issue: Have to do the "Help" pwr state alignment about once a week because SOME family member presses activity w/door to devices closed.... This turns on the plasma but not the watched device (eg. 8300, DVD player, etc.). Its a simple matter of pressing the remote's Help button & setting the state to re-align things. Wouldn't happen if controlled devices were always exposed (so they could get IR commands).

Posted by: cfcubed at Oct 13, 2005 7:38:56 AM

I don't normally post comments, but had to say how easy the remote was to program. I bought the 880 model and it only took about 10 minutes to be up and running. Understand, you need to know your home components and how your entertainment system works, but easy nonetheless.

Nice Job...

Posted by: Burke at Oct 13, 2005 2:45:14 PM

I have had the 880 for about 5 months now and its stopped charging. I noticed that others are having the same problem. The charger is at fault with the three conections not making contact properly. I managed to shim the position to make it work until a can find a new charger. Otherwise the device works great. Buttons need to be improved but overall im impressed.

Posted by: Peter at Oct 16, 2005 8:36:02 PM

It doesn't do Dish Network (or any) RF does it?

Posted by: Eric T. at Oct 20, 2005 11:16:34 AM

I've waited months for the 880 to be available and it has been worth it. I don't care what complaints others have about earlier models. The price of this universal compared to all others recommended to me (by those who have self interests in having to have me pay them to program it) is about 1/3 to maybe even 1/4 or 1/5/.

Like the proverbial guy who liked the shaver so much he bought the company, I now sell the product myself (http://esvc000044.wic001ss.server-shop.com/store/viewItem.shop?idProduct=4 )

Maybe som minor issues about button placement, etc, but for the ability to do activity based buttons and removed 7 remotes from my table and even replaced one I didn't have (never got it with the device).

And I wouldn't consider that I have taught it all I can about other things I want to do (scene setting, etc).

Regards,
Larry
2005OC21 10:30

Posted by: Larry at Oct 20, 2005 5:36:09 PM

"As I mentioned, the setup wizards on the Harmony site are great for first timers, but I've found them frustrating on revisits to tweak my current settings. I kind of wish there was an alternate, direct way to modify an activity without being forced to answer a zillion questions first."

There are actually advanced settings that you can get into for each device to help you tweek the settings further. You can also rewrite/add activities in XML. It's actually quite tweekable away from the wizards.

I'm excited, I've been using an OOOOLD Harmony 745 for a few years now. I ran across a deal on Slickdeals.net for 20% off plus $20 off the Harmony 880 through Dell. That works out to $179.

Posted by: Leetone at Oct 26, 2005 12:19:41 PM

There are a few things not mentioned here others might find useful. I've had a couple of models now and currently own a 688.

First off this unit has saved alot of problems for my wife and others who can now just push a button to turn on the entire system without having to be an engineer of electronics.

When you select an activity lets say watch dvd it will turn on the tv, set it to video 4,turn on the dvd player and start to play, turn on the amp and select the propper input all at the press of one button, as you switch betwween activities it also can turn off the devices you are no longer using, so if decided to watch tv instead it would turn off the dvd player turn on the tv tuner or sat box switch the amp and change the amp input.

Also when you set up devices in many cases the you will find there are many more commands available that are not on the original remote, such as on my sony tv I can now go directly to input 5 by pressing 1 button instead of pushing the video button until I got there. Also if there are any commands you can't find, you can teach them to the remote and place it on almost any button you want as most button commands can be changed. also in the display window there command buttons on the side with text labels on the screen which you can label what ever you want such as input5 or change5 or what ever you like it is limited to 8 or 10 characters though.

Also when you are in an activity there are 2 other buttons on the remote,sound and picture which give you esy access to amp settings or tv setting like setup menues or differn't sound fields etc.

Also even though you are in an activity you can use the device button which will list all the differn't devices you have set up in the remotes screen and give you direct access to any device with all it's commands available.

At first glance these remote seem to have limited functionality but are super easy to set up and use, just log onto the website,select your various components,and create activities.But after using it awhile and learning what it is really capable of it is trully an awesome remote control.

Posted by: Rainer at Nov 5, 2005 9:30:50 AM

I have had the Harmony 880 remote for about 4 months and loved it. I recently had a problem charging the unit and noticed that many other people were having the same problem. I called Harmony's support line and had a new charge cradle sent to me in about 2 days. The charging problems are fixed and the response was amazing.

Posted by: Mike Sutton at Dec 11, 2005 9:45:03 AM

Eddie:

Quote: "I've always put the DVD in the player before heading to the couch- so it screws up the settings."

If your DVD player supports discreet On and Off IR codes, you can solve this problem. Do a Google search for raw IR codes for your DVD player model. Once you have found them, send an email to Harmony's tech support. They can add these raw codes and change your setup for you such that the "Watch a Movie" command only sends an ON command to the DVD Player. If it's already on this won't pose a problem. Subsequently, pressing the Off button will send an OFF command to the DVD Player. Again, if it's already off, not a problem.

Finding discreet codes and programming them into your remote solves a million problems. People have already been raving about the fact that they can pick the desired input on their receiver directly instead of having to flip through a bunch... If you are lucky enough to have all your devices support discreet codes for power and input selection, then you'll never need the Help button again.

Posted by: Jeff at Dec 23, 2005 7:30:36 AM

I think the 880 software SUCKS! It is the most piss poor thought out design I have ever seen. If I were a home theatre specialist and I was trying to program my customers remote for them and I had to have web acc. That would be a real hassle. The remote does not even give toy the option to change the Icons for your devices if you want. I still can not get the POS to control every thing correctly due to its limited function ability. I have a 6 year old Touchlinc that has more programming options in one page than this POS has in its entire program.

Posted by: Brad at Dec 23, 2005 1:43:15 PM

I had both a 520 remote and an 880 remote. Both were JUNK. Harmony Remotes require that you learn to use a stupid Java based teach-me-your-congfuration program to configure the Remote. The people at Logitech should wake up and realize that the average person knows how to push buttons and operate his or her equipment. Why not just ask the user what commands need to be sent to the equipment and be done with it. Further to this, you can not ask the set-up program to tell you what the remote will be sending to the equipment when you select an activity. For example, I told the set-up program that my TV was an Insignia. It recognized the model number. The configuration sent to the 880 could not even turn the TV Off and On let alone change channels. I will guess the 880 is sending On/Off and channel number commands -- but wait, we are going to want to get the 880 to do something a little more complicated than turn a TV Off and On. It was able to easily configure the Remove to control an old junker Sony TV. To control the Insignia I had to teach it every button code including all the digits. The stupid Java program should have just asked me to do this in the first place. The next thing is "average" users often do things like set up a DVR to record a scrambled cable channel and then do some unrelated activity like watch a local TV channel. The configuration program seams to think devices like TV's, CBL boxes, etc. are always either On or, the configuration program will do whatever it thinks is best. Now you start fighting with the set-up program to get it to NOT send certain commands like turn the CBL box off at certain times. The term "Hard To Use" does not accurately describe this software. The set-up program is a serendipity learning challenge. You may, just by chance, stumble across something that will make the 880 do something that you what you want it to do. Good Luck if you buy one of these. Most of us have better things to do with our time.

Warren

Posted by: Warren Andersen at Feb 24, 2006 10:10:10 AM

Update to my 520 and 880 JUNK Comment. The problem has been SOLVED.
The configuration process for Harmony Remotes is totally stupid -- an internet connection required, the set-up program asks stupid questions, etc. The people at SONY did a great job with their RM-AV2500 universal remote -- no internet connection is required, you get a 76 page printed manual with examples, all you have to do is tell the RM-AV2500 what you want it to do and it does it. Simple and very powerful.
Basically it works like this. The RM-AV2500 has 12 physical device keys: TV, VCR, DVD, DVR, CBL, etc. The idea is to program each of these keys in such a way as to have the RM-AV2500 replace your original remotes. If your TV for example is on the list of recognized TVs you can program the RM-AV2500 by entering a four digit code. If your TV is not listed, it is not much a problem to tell the RM-AV2500 what keys are on your remote and teach it the corresponding IR codes. When you press the TV device button the touch screen configures to your TV. The touch screen is about the size of a credit card but seams larger when you are using the device. Irrelevant buttons can be hidden. Relevant buttons can be configured in whatever way you like.
Once you have done this for all of your AV hardware you can put your original controllers away. If you now "tap" the TV button you have a TV remote with ON/OFF, Input Select, etc. If you then "tap" the CBL button you have a CBL remote with ON/OFF, etc.
In the next step you program your AV set-up configurations. This is where you hold a device button down for 2 seconds and the remote sends a sequence of up to 30 commands to configure your AV hardware. Teaching a CBL set-up configuration is simple. The RM-AV2500 is set to learn CBL set-up configuration. Now press the keys you would use to configure your hardware: TV, On, Input, ... CBL, On, ... end-learn. Holding any of the 12 device keys can send whatever command sequence you choose. If this is not enough, there are also A,B,C command keys that can be programmed to send key sequences, also some soft keys can be programmed to send key sequences.
To give you some idea as to how complex it is to set up a RM-AV2500 i can say this. I have 5 components in my AV system: a 26" LCD HDTV with tuner and 8 inputs, a Digital CBL Box with tuner, a DVR with tuner, 3 inputs, hard drive and DVD-RW media slot, a VCR and DVD combo with turner and 3 inputs and a Sony Mini Stereo with CD, AM/FM tuner, dual cassette and amp/mixer. I was only able to use four digit device codes for the CBL box ( Motorola ) and the Sony Mini Stereo. I had to program the IR codes for the TV, DVR and VCR/DVD. It took about eight hours to go from knowing nothing about the RM-AV2500 to having it fully configured for my AV hardware (all features). I accomplished more in the first two hours with the SONY than i did in the first two days with the Logitech.
I think the SONY is a good buy at about $150 CDN. If there were anything i would like to have added it would be a USB connection to allow me to save the configuration file on a PC. Sales info seams to indicate the remote has non-volatile memory but the documentation indicates batteries should be replaced within 24 hours. The USB could also be used to customize soft key labels and display help. A soft key shows one of four possible labels depending on the device key it is connected to. For example, the remote has PIP keys for TV. However, since i do not have PIP, i would rather relabel the PIP keys and use then for some other purpose. Not a big deal. The Sony remote is replacing five remotes and it works perfectly.

Posted by: Warren Andersen at Feb 27, 2006 12:03:03 PM

I have to say that even though the remote itself (I have the 525) is very nice, it can't be stated enough that the setup "wizard" is about the most retarded piece of crap I've used in a long, long, long, long time.

I don't know why Logitech even came up with the idea of this software, it's not only annoying but also feels extremely dated.

Do you Like using a page by page website which is often overloaded, to do ANYTHING?

There is far to much separation of options into what was clearly considered to be helpful, but this seems to be the clear consideration of someone who had NEVER had any contact with an interactive system of any sort before in their lives...

One can only imagine that someone who has time travelled from 1823 into the Logitech offices and managed to convince them they're an Experience Architect...

Words simply cannot describe how annoying this software is...

It's so disappointing, especially when it really ruins this fantastic controller.

Posted by: Jason at Mar 1, 2006 5:43:57 PM

Just bought the 880 yesterday. It literally took about 10 minutes to take control of everything in my entertainment center as well as the room lighting once I completed the initial charging.

I absolutely love the thing! One touch operation and setting up your favorite channels with station logos via the Net is a real nice touch and scored me some serious points with the Mrs!

Web interface is okay. I think alot of people's complaints would vanish if they adjust their profiles to the expert mode. The site tends not to be so 'helpful' that way. Major drawback with the software is the complete dependance on Internet Explorer. C'mon guys, lets get some Firefox support!

I agree with others on the button placement issue. I think some more thought could have gone into the overall design. But it works.

Lastly, one issue that I haven't seen anyone else post. The weight. Maybe it's just me but the remote seems a little light, giving it that toy feeling. I'd like a beefier feel to it!

SjN

Posted by: SjN at Mar 12, 2006 6:42:45 AM

I may have to try this, as I am getting more and more disenchanted with the directv remotes.

Todd Lokken

Posted by: Todd Lokken at Apr 30, 2006 5:03:37 PM

I thought i'd give one a few months ago after spending ages trying to find a replacement TV remote (i cant tune the thing without the remote the dog ate)

For
- Looks nice in the box
- Easy to get basic functions going

Against
- Web interface is a dreadful waste of time, needing to follow a specific path over and over to get things done
- Feels tacky , esp the rattling of the motion sensor
- Buttons in bottom half hard to locate

Anyway, its stayed on the shelf since then until now when i got a moment i thought i'd update a couple of settings but i get this useful message

"Routine System Maintenance
Thank you for visiting our web site, we are presently performing system maintenance.

Please try again later."

Lot of use that is

Hopefully one day some clever person will write a smart client app. Its a nice idea but i dont think anyone at Logitech have actually ever tried using it - it could be so much better so easily

Posted by: Nick Christie at Jun 21, 2006 2:10:48 AM

For people having trouble with the charging cradle, here are 2 simple steps

1- Make sure the plug is firmly connected to the base
2- Clean the contacts with a Qtip dipped in rubbing alcohol

Enjoy!

Posted by: Joe at Jun 30, 2006 9:03:09 AM

I have the harmony 688. I have the software installed here on my laptop. I purchased a new tv...Tosheba 47in. 1080P I have the device hooked up but can't get in to program the darn think. I could use some help. 386-760-8427

Thank you

Posted by: Harry J Adams at Sep 17, 2006 4:45:20 PM

what do you need from x 10 to run lights from the 88.

Posted by: Pobrian at Nov 6, 2006 12:40:01 PM

Funtionally the remote is very good but the buttons are so annoying that I just can't put up with it. It's almost as annoying as trying to use a touch screen. A remote needs to have good tactile feel. You shouldn't have to use 2 hands and look at it every time you want to fast forward. Mine's going on eBay.

Nice idea, Logitech but the ergonomics need a major overhaul.

Posted by: AndrewWilliams at Jan 8, 2007 12:59:57 AM

I just broke the damn thing into 2 pieces and threw it away - not even pursuing a refund.

This is the worst remote control I ever experienced, maybe my systems are too exotic? Onkyo high end amp, Samsung DLP 62 inch tv, XBox360, PS3, Comcast cable&DVR?
It never worked more than once and I never programmed something so many times.
The remote coming with my cable box works better than the Harmony - sadly, I fell for the false promises and the positive feedback on this site here.

Posted by: Will at Jul 5, 2007 3:41:38 PM

I picked up the 880 at a sale when I got my new 32" Toshiba HDTV. I had previously used one and set it up for my boss with his 50" Toshiba Plasma, Pioneer Receiver and Bell ExpressVu PVR. It was a cinch to set up. Not so for me. My Xbox 360 didn't always turn on when the remote was supposed to, would never turn off, the blasted thing refused to change inputs on my TV properly, no matter which way I tried to set it up. The software kept crashing and I gave up on it and took it back. After wasting 6 hours trying various tricks to get the blasted thing to behave, it went back for a refund. It wasted my time and I refuse to support a product that is obviously not completely thought out.

KISS is the best method for these things, Keep it simple stupid...

Posted by: Troy at Sep 22, 2007 3:16:54 PM

I have to agree that the Harmony 880 setup is junk. I purchased the remote 3 days ago and decided to set the thing up yesterday. After spending 6 hours trying to get the remote to download, spending about an hour on the phone with Technical Support to wind up right back where I started with the remote going back into the box and ready to go to the store I purchased it at was very frustrating.
First, it took several trys to get either the website software or the disc that came with it to properly download/update on Vista and XP. Once it finally loaded onto both my laptop and desktop it took another 45 minutes just to get the software to respond to the new updates.
After spending about an hour to get the activities to line up properly with the multiple units in each room, it then took another 5 hours to get the software to communicate with the remote. It would either sit at 3% and state it was communicating with the remote or it would go to 2114% and never download or reboot the remote to even work properly.
At that point I took the unit off of USB and could never get passed the blue screen of death that kept saying to "go to the website and update the settings". Even Technical Support couldn't get me passed the screen so right out of the box this remote has been a waste of time and money. Big POS!

Posted by: Slipslap99 at Oct 13, 2007 6:19:20 AM

Slipslap99: I had the same problem just now, the so called "blue screen of death. I called customer service and in less than 10 minutes, my problem was solved.

I have 4 880's and I just love these things. Great remotes with great customer service.

Posted by: Joe In Toronto at Oct 22, 2007 11:32:01 AM

Be careful with the USB connection in the front of the remote, I just added a new device to my home entertainment array went to program it into my remote and the USB interface popped right off...

I am in the HW manufacturing industry and can tell you that they did not put adequate support for an interface that is potentially used this often and only the solder is holding the interface in place??

I am pursuing a RMA with Logitech now, and have had the remote for 14 Months...

Yesterday I was an 880 advocate, today???

Posted by: Joe Blow at Jan 11, 2008 7:27:15 AM

Things we love: the Harmony 880 remote

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