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TiVo adds ads with DirecTV and Comcast

TiVo, the little box that lets you avoid seeing ads, it working hard to make sure you see ads. They have deals with Comcast and DirecTV to make sure you don't forget that a soft drink isn't about sugar, water and CO2 – it's a lifestyle choice that defines you as a person.

The popular, if not profitible, DirecTiVos will being showing those billboard ads and both TiVo and DirecTV will be sharing in the profits. While DirecTV has shied away from adding features like Home Media Option to the DirecTiVos (despite the political backing of an online petition, which is probably the first time in history one of those failed to work) subscribers will be happy to hear that DirecTV is upgrading their boxes with a feature to ram commercials down their ad holes. There must be an online petition for DirecTV to add more commercials from both people who requested that feature.

Not to be outdone, Comcast and TiVo announced that they would be replacing commercials broadcast in recorded shows with updated ads that are more "targeted and relevant." If online advertising is any indication of how targeted and relevant advertising can be, we can't wait to get 50,000 smileys for our TiVo. This also raises questions that the billboard ads raised, like can a relevant Pepsi ad replace a Coke ad? Or, for people living in Detroit and used to being targeted (just not by advertising), a Faygo ad?

None of this ad stuff should be too surprising (well, replacing old ads with new ones kind of is) because TiVo has been saying for a while that they want to make bundles of cash on advertising. It is kind of disheartening, but you can expect to see more advertising in your TiVo as they move their business plan towards earning more and more ad revenue.

by George Hotelling April 7, 2005

Comments

It's always been Tivo's wet dream to be in bed directly with the advertisers. They don't really consider what we want as consumers and their primary revenue to be nearly as important as anything a media conglomerate or advertising company might want. They have demonstrated this time and time again... so no nothing here is surprise, just sad. Tivo will sell out as fast as they possible can to make as much money as they can. Sonic Blue truly cared about giving customers a choice and stood up for their product and where suite nuked back to oblivion for their trouble so it's really no wonder Tivo wants to the opposite direction. Get used to it commercial PVR's are going be embraced and destroyed by the advertisers and companies like Tivo that want to cash in on the fat revenue targeted advertising pipe on what is ultimately our dime. That sad thing we all let this happen by not forcing them to cater to the consumer first. Mass subsciption cancelations might help them wake up and smell the taost burning, but it will never happen.

Posted by: Bushi at Apr 7, 2005 9:56:38 AM

I don't particularly understand the outrage here. The replacing old ads with current ads is quite novel. Unless they force you to watch the new ads (i.e. disable fast forward), it will not affect people who fast-forward through them. As for the pop-up ads they are testing, I think they need to the kinks worked out. If they can find a happy medium where the ad does not significantly block the screen space, then it won't bother me in the least.

The first commenter acts as if TiVo is selling out for their own greed. The problem with that assertion is that TiVo isn't making a profit. If they don't make a profit, they can't survive no matter how much their customers love them. I'm in favor of any deal that is going to keep them alive. As customers, we need to make sure they make these compromises without ruining the experience. It will be up to individual as to what compromise ruins the experience.

I, for one, have faith for now that they'll find the right place for those compromises. We shall see.

Posted by: Jonathan Ellis at Apr 7, 2005 10:23:36 AM

Bait and switch.

Posted by: Thomas Hawk at Apr 7, 2005 10:42:53 AM

Quit your griping already! Ads, Ads, Ads.....Ads, Ads-Ads, Ads. Ads are everywhere, face the music people.
I am glad that now the ads will atleast be target at me. Targeted ads = fewer ads at lower costs.
I like it, maybe now I will stop having to watch all the herpes, cholesterol and playtex ads and starting getting into items actually relevant to me.

Posted by: Tyson at Apr 7, 2005 10:44:14 AM

I'm looking forward to seeing replaced ads, that sounds novel and something that could get them into hot water. Wouldn't the person paying for the original ad get pissed they got charged for the ad placement that no one in a certain area ever saw?

Not all ads are bad, if ads could truly be targetted, I'd love to see stuff I might actually buy and be interested in, but I am surprised to see DirecTV throwing ads at people without giving new features.

Boy am I glad my superhacked DirecTiVo is stuck on an old version of the 4.0 OS. No ads for me, ever.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Apr 7, 2005 11:02:05 AM

As I have already mentioned (see my trackback below), they don't appear authorized under the current terms of service to selectively DELETE content I record. Nor, for that matter, am I convinced the current terms authorize them to selectively INTERSPERSE (be it by overlay, replacement or addition) their own advertising material WITHIN my recordings.

Posted by: eufreka at Apr 7, 2005 11:05:54 AM

TO all the "stop the whining" people out there.
SHUT UP!!

The reason I pay 12 bucks/month for HBO is so that I don't have to watch commercials.

A lot of moveis that I can watch on HBO, also show up on USA/TNT/TBS/ etc. but I have to deal with people editing them and adding commercials.

If TiVo wants to make money from ADs then they need make it a free service. (Uhmm...like regular TV).

The reason we see ads on broadcast TV is because its free! The reason we don't want ads is because we PAY FOR TiVo SERVICE. I DONT WANT TO HAVE TO PAY SOMEONE TO GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO FORCE ME TO SEE CRAP I DONT WANT TO WATCH IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY SHOULD PAY ME TO WATCH THEIR ADs.

I understand that TiVo offers some nice search and manage features programming, but I thought that was what I was paying for to begin with. I guess I was wrong. I guess my monthly (or that bullshit "lifetime") fee is really to subsidize ads???

You know, most people wouldn't complain if TiVo added more ads in clever ways if the TiVo Service were free. But TiVo is a pay service. I don;t think people would be really happy if HBO started airing commercials.

Posted by: ChicagoTom at Apr 7, 2005 11:55:33 AM

First off over 90% of America pays for TV or do you live in a magical land where cable or DTV is free? You pay a premium for ad free HBO on top of whatever you are paying. What about when you drive down a toll road and you see a billboard, ride the subway (for $2)and see an ad or buy a ticket to see a concert at the Staples Center. You paid but still had advertising in your face. Its a fact of life. DEAL WITH IT!

Second what do you care if they swap old ads with new ones? You are still going to fast forward through it so what does it matter? If it can keep TiVo in business, GREAT!!

From reading the TiVo press releases and fillings, it would appear that a company pays to replace its own ads, ie Disney can make sure the movie trailers are for this weekends new releases, not Pepsi over coke ads. The same goes for billboards. It would be a coke banner over a coke ad.

Finally I dont see the big deal with a billboard. If you can still watch a 30 minute program in 22 minutes, whenever you want what do you care what is on the screen for those 30 seconds

Posted by: does it matter at Apr 7, 2005 12:14:17 PM

So your argument is that anything they do to keep themselves in business in order to shove more ads our way is a good thing?

Posted by: rascalking at Apr 7, 2005 12:19:09 PM

1. With an antenna, broadcast channels are free.
2. You care to back up your "90%" number. I am willing to bet my life that "90%" of America does not in fact pay for television.

3. Does TiVo provide content ? Do they produce original programming ? NO. I pay a premium for TiVo above and beyond whatever cost I pay for the content being provided (antenna, cable, DISH/DIRECTV). So why exactly should I be "ok" with them swapping ads or whatnot? I AM PAYING A PREMIUM TO GET THE ABILITY TO AVOID ADs. So when you say "why does it matter", I say because I am not getting what I am paying for! And that matters? The 2 services I am happy to pay TiVo for is the listings search and the ability to avoid commercials. They just pulled the plug on half the value, so I want half my money back.

4. The whole "as long as it keeps TiVo in business" line of reasoning is flawed. If TiVo could only stay in business by tying all your personal info to your viewing habits and selling it to the higest bidder would that be a-ok too ? You see, TiVo doesn't have a RIGHT to succeed. They should succeed by building a customer base by providing a quality product and growing their customer base.
And last time I checked, successful business tended to value the customer and not do things that are antagonistic to the customer base in order to add some pennies to the bottom line. (When one of your selling points is the ability to SKIP COMMERCIALS, NOT BEING ABLE TO SKIP COMMERCIALS ANGERS CUSTOMERS)

5. Your billboard analogy is off-base as well. Again you miss the point. If were somehow paying a premium to ride this road (say a dollar more than the 2 dollar toll) and I was promised that in exchange for paying the extra dollar I wouldn't have to see billboards, and then I was forced to see billboards I would be just as pissed.

If TiVo wants to make money from ads fine. But we shouldn't ahve to subsidize it.
I see no reason why we should pay monthly support a new advertising system. That is not what we were supporting.

Posted by: ChicagoTom at Apr 7, 2005 12:33:44 PM

according to Nielsons 16.7% of the US have either a DBS or satellite service and cable is 68.1% for a total of 84.8% of households receive pay TV, then you factor in that a certain % of people dont have a TV or steal their cable. Still looking for the % of homes that are estimated to steal cable and the DBS number is from 2003. Dont think the 90% number is that far fetched.

You are not avoiding commercials at this time as you are actively watching them to see when to stop hitting FF, unless you have a 30 sec skip in which case no billboards and if you are paying attention you are seeing the ads, not avoided and when the billboard dissapears you now know when to hit play.

TiVo never said you could skip commercials, it said you could FF through them. Replay got in trouble for promoting ad skipping so they have not changed their offering. You can still FF through them.

Posted by: does it matter at Apr 7, 2005 1:08:33 PM

ChicagoTom -

81% of US households pay for television.

Tivo does provide content and specialized content for subscribers only.

I am surprised that you only have 2 uses for your Tivo. You should check out TTG and the HME apps available.

Since they have ruined your fun, maybe you should save us all and cancel Tivo. I bet you wont, because the bigger picture you are ignoring in your posts is much prettier.

Posted by: Tyson at Apr 7, 2005 1:14:16 PM

It's time for a new PVR Sheriff. It seems like Tivo has become Sheriff and now DirecTv is hired as the deputy. They both need to be fired by bringing to 'PVR Town' a sheriff (company) which has the belief that if the people are happy, (which we're slowing losing) they'll be happy (in this case, rich!) I know ads can create high revenues but at the cost of happy customers? - Is there any hope? Just a thought.

Posted by: A Daniels at Apr 7, 2005 1:30:59 PM

It's official: TiVO is now dead.

Ratbastards.

Posted by: Lee at Apr 7, 2005 3:16:38 PM

I dont get why people are complaining about the replace old ads with new ones - it's actually a very good idea, and it doesnt interfere with anything just gives you new ads which you FF through anyway. It's just as if the Waybackmachine were to update old ads with new ones, it doesnt interfere at all but gives you some new ads, if you ever wanted to see those ;)

But these popup ads? Sickening. TiVo will die (yay MythTV) and those who tied themselves to a single provider with a 'lifetime' subscription are now SC-REW-ED! BWAHAHAHA

Posted by: KirbyMeister at Apr 7, 2005 3:50:58 PM

Sure am glad Tivo is spending their R&D money on these great new features!

Posted by: Stevie the TV at Apr 7, 2005 3:55:12 PM

Give me a break, folks...

Tivo is selling a Digital Video Recorder, not a commercial advertisement skipper/avoider.

I pay $$$ for a subscription to Tivo because they provide me with an updated TV schedule, the ability to search through it, the ability to set a Season Pass, the ability (now) to transfer recordings to my home computer, and more. Nothing in their subscription says that you are paying for the option to avoid advertising.

If you don't like advertising, stop watching TV. Or download your shows on the Net.

As others have said, I can still fast forward or use 30-second skipping (and you can go online to find out how to turn 30-seconmd skipping on, if yours is off).

As long as the design of how the ads pop-up is appropriate for Tivo, who cares?

Posted by: Mickymse at Apr 7, 2005 5:29:51 PM

Perhaps Compcast is paying for the research and development under their new agreement, but really, as a customer of their end-product, why do you care what Tivo is spending R&D money on?

Maybe you should look at it from the perspective that these developments will earn money and enable Tivo to fund more projects and create more features for customers in the long-run.

Posted by: Tyson at Apr 7, 2005 6:08:32 PM

I'll repeat myself: Anyone who doesn't like this, *please* get rid of your damn TiVo so we can stop listening to this broken record.

I think the "I paid so they have no right" people are laughable. Just because you paid doesn't mean you're covering ALL costs - you have to pay for most magazines and newspapers, they still have ads. Because the model *splits* revenue between the ads and the subs. Same as TiVo. It isn't a new concept, wake up.

If you don't like it, then don't use TiVo. ReplayTV boxes are still available, as are a number of VCR-like DVRs and DVD recorders. And you can always build a MythTV or FreeVo box - or buy a Media Center PC.

No one is making you use a service that you don't like. If it really bothers you that much (which I think it silly) - do something about it: Use a different product!

ChicagoTom - first you need to switch to decaf, then you need to dump TiVo. They're quite obviously not after your market segment and they're *not* going to change to make you happy. So give it up and move on. If you don't like it - well, too damn bad, that's life. You obviously weren't paying attention since advertising has been part of TiVo's public business plans since *day one*!

So far none of thise has had *any* impact on my use of their product. And none of the ad annoucements will either. If you already FF through ads - nothing changes. Ooooh, a pop-up for the product comes up while you're zipping through. Does that *really* change how you watch the show? If so - seek professional help. If you use 30 second skip, there has been no indication that will be removed - nothing changes at all for you.

And updating ads with newer ads is something I've seen in industry talk in the past, this is just the first time I've heard of someone actually doing it. Again, I fail to see a problem. So instead of FF through a movie ad for a film from last month, you FF through a movie ad for a film from this month. Oh, the horror.

The 'TiVo will die' people are just being idiots. Anyone who *really* thinks MythTV, or anything like it, is going to replace TiVo for the general public is smoking some VERY good weed. Even Media Center PCs, which are ready out of the box, haven't made a dent in DVR sales. And with the Comcast deal the average Comcast customer will be able to have TiVo with *no* effort at all - pay the fee, Comcast turns it on. Couldn't be easier. And you think MythTV is going to compete with that? Or that the ads will change that? Have you see the current crop of cable DVRs? *With* the ads the TiVo software is lightyears ahead of the current pack - and people are sucking up the current cable DVRs as fast as they're deployed.

Folks need a reality check. Most of the world is *not* like the /. crowd.

Oh - as as for the current terms of service, you did notice that they can change them at any time, right? So even if it wasn't permitted today (and I'm not sure I'd agree it isn't), they just change them and it is.

I'm laughing my ass off at the people screaming about the sky falling and this being the end of the world. Silly people.

Posted by: MegaZone at Apr 7, 2005 7:11:40 PM

"I'll repeat myself: Anyone who doesn't like this, *please* get rid of your damn TiVo so we can stop listening to this broken record."

Well MegaZone, as much as I respect your work and your opinions, this phrase sounds a bit too much like "You want to criticize this country/job/school/town? Get the hell out then!" which isn't any way to start a dialogue.

I didn't write the original post here, George did and I believe his sarcastic tone is being taken seriously by some. Myself, I'm leaning towards indifference if TiVo can do these ads right, in the TiVo UI like most cable guides do ads, but some loyal customers that have used the device for years don't like the changes at all and their criticisms are valid and mostly constructive (the folks bursting blood vessels and trying to start class action suits should be ignored). I hope TiVo is listening.

The Comcast/TiVo ad plans are fine, but I still say that it's unfair for DirecTV owners to be held back from useful upgrades while instead adding advertising features to the same OS. That sucks.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Apr 7, 2005 7:37:26 PM

Hey as long as I can record the shows and watch them when I want I could care less about a few adds

If it Keeps Tivo in business

More power to ya

Posted by: MB at Apr 7, 2005 8:05:18 PM

This has got to be the worst piece of garbage related to TiVo that I've seen on a gadget related site, ever.

PVR Blog: you are letting your standards slip, severely, by publishing this drivel.

Let's apply some facts to this wild anti-advertising paranoia, shall we?

Are we losing our ability to fast forward over ads?

No.

Are we losing our ability to 30-second skip over ads?

No.

Are we being forced to watch any of these ads?

No.

Is TiVo going to start making some money by showing advertisers how to target their ads, and thus, make the ads less annoying to us, and therefore, possibily encourage us to actually watch ads that we might find interesting or useful to us?

Yes.

Does this ensure the long-term financial success of TiVo, and, ultimately, move the financial burdens of owning a TiVo off of the TV viewer and on to the advertisers?

Yes.

Does this mean that we will continue to have "free", ad-supported TV, after PVRs make it possible for everyone to avoid advertisements, and thus, we won't be forced to pay for every single bit of new TV content?

Yes.

Something to think about. Now stop whining about TiVo being "in bed with advertisers" since that was TiVo's intention all along, as you should have known if you had any understanding at all of their business model and long term game plan. There was no way they could ever survive on subscriber revenue alone.

Posted by: Quit yer whining! at Apr 7, 2005 11:58:15 PM

I would also like to add that if TiVo can make increase revenues from advertisers that gives them more money to spend on R&D to deliver to us, the end user, a better experience with new services we havent even thought of yet. They have indicated in the past that because they are such a small company their resources are limited. Imagine what they could do with a R&D budget 3X greater.

Posted by: Does it matter at Apr 8, 2005 5:44:55 AM

People told me I was crazy when I spent $600 for a Series 1 TiVo with lifetime service five years ago. but I said to my wife just last night that it was the best $600 I've ever spent. I've dumped another $400 into it to upgrade it over the years.

I don't think the Series 1 is getting these new ad overlays. Of course, I don't have the HMO either. But my box is still running.

Posted by: ruidh at Apr 8, 2005 7:55:38 AM

I think we should all follow TiVo's lead. I suggest they put rotating billboard ads the dashboard of your car, in your recliner, your clock, and maybe your pet collar.

The networks already replace a third of your screen during the show your watching with commercials for their own shows coming up.

Hey, better idea. Let's just move the show to the PIP location and make more room for commercials. Never, mind, let's skip the show all together and just watch the commercials. We need to help TiVo.

Sheesh, give me a break. I own TiVo to for flexible programming and to skip commercials. I invested a lot to make that happen. It is valid to expect no commercials with TiVo.

Are you seriously paying $13/month for the programming schedule alone? Boy, I've got some other services I'd like to sell you. Oh, by the way, they will have advertising that is tasteless and offensive. I get more money for those. If you don’t like it, don’t watch. Also, we’re not responsible for what your children see in those commercials either.

Posted by: NoAds at Apr 8, 2005 8:29:41 AM

Sometimes I wonder if pro-Ads/pro-Commercial people are just Wall Street sell-outs who want the rest of us to be brain-dead consumers, because it puts money into their stock portfolios. Either that, or these people who are so fond of paying to see ads are just plain brain-dead themselves. Just like the brain-dead marketers who produce most of these advertisements.

Why does cable TV have more commercials than free broadcast television? Comcast and their "non-premium" channels run 7 minutes of program then 4 minutes of Ads. Sometimes it's 10 minutes of program content then 5 minutes of Ads. Yet why are they charging so much for Basic Cable?

TiVo and other companies could offer individual consumers a "control" for Ads, for those of us willing to pay extra for it (I think it's called CHOICE!). But no! Why just take money from your consumer when you can make him/her pay to see Ads?

Satellite Radio is the next big scam. Market it as commercial-free content, then, when Wall Street says so, slip in Ads, and hike up the subscription fee. Then slip in more Ads.

It's the paradox of publicly traded companies, it seems. Especially nowadays. Charge the consumer more, and deliver less. Then divide up the profits on Wall Street.

Posted by: not_a_sell_out at Apr 10, 2005 9:22:50 PM

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