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DirecTV's HD problem

A few months ago, I finally splurged and got a low-end plasma TV capable of displaying HDTV signals (it's only 480p or ED, but still). I longed for a HD DirecTiVo to replace my current (hacked) DirecTiVo box. Last month I called DirecTV to inquire what my options were, and that's when trouble started.

Basically, if I paid $999 for a HD DirecTiVo box plus ten bucks a month extra, I could get their HDTV pack including Discovery and ESPN in HD format, their HDNet offering of various programming, and HBO in HD, since I already get HBO. Local stations in HD format like Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC were subject to pending FCC approval even though DirecTV has a pretty page set up to sell it.

I called today to see how that FCC ruling went and unfortunately, DirecTV lost. If you get local channels in standard definition format, you cannot get HD. DirecTV can only offer Over the Air (OTA) antennas, which doesn't help me being out in the hilly regions away from Portalnd, OR. They did say if I lived in LA or NYC, I could get local channels in HD from DirecTV, but otherwise the rest of the country was screwed. I don't think five channels of varying content are worth a thousand dollar box (with constant HDMI problems) plus ten bucks a month.

But it doesn't end there -- DirecTV sent up a couple new satellites last year to increase their bandwidth for more HD channels. They're talking about adding dozens-to-hundreds of channels in HD format in the next year, but (drumroll please...) it'll be in a new encryption/encoding (MPEG-4) format which won't work with $999 HD DirecTiVos.

The Washington Post recently mentioned this in an advice column, warning folks to avoid the HD DirecTiVo boxes. Word on the street is that DirecTV will offer their competing NDS DVR for recording HD signals instead of TiVo, with no concrete plans for converting current owners from one to the other. DirecTV says that plans are to have the new channels and DVRs out by the end of the year, so the bottom line is that if you're a HDTV owner with DirecTV in 2005 that wants to record HDTV, you're S.O.L.

It's a bummer really, since I've gotten DirecTV in 2002, I never thought I'd go back to cable, but Comcast now offers their HD DVR in my area for less than the price of my DirecTV package, and I wouldn't have to buy a $999 doorstop to get it. I'd really like to enjoy network shows in HD, and it looks like my only option for the next year.

DirecTV really dropped the ball on this one.

UPDATE: Thomas Hawk says there's a way to route around DirecTV's damage by getting the right rep on the phone and asking for the NY/LA service for a few bucks extra. Sounds like exactly what I wanted, though the reps I've spoken with say they're not allowed to sell that to me. Kind of expensive to get the HD locals for another $10/month on top of the $10/month regular HD package, but at least it's possible.

by Matt Haughey April 5, 2005 in DirecTV, Op-Ed

Comments

Uh. Maybe link to more than one thread at TC about the issue. There are dozens of threads about this with long time DirecTV customers re-telling stories about "nearly free" swap-outs of gear that DirecTV has done in the past.

And as someone pointed out on TC very recently, what benefit is it to DirecTV to tell their top-tier customers to pound sand? We purchased their most expensive hardware offering to date, we subscribe (in general) to more services than other users, and are just plain more loyal.

Customer acquisition costs a ton more than customer retention, which is why DirecTV is pretty loose with incentives for long time customers. If the reported profit margins (upwards of 100%) are to be believed, then to swap out HR10-250's with some other new box should be a no-brainer for DirecTV.

And then on top of all of that, and as you mentioned, there are options. When the HR10-250 first hit shelves, it was essentially the only option. Now you can get HD DVR's from just about any large Cableco and of course next year the SA, dual-tuner, CableCard, HD Tivo hits the market. So, when the new birds are up and the first 12 markets are online with MPEG4 the options will be greater (and include other Tivo powered products). DirecTV cannot, and will not, ignore that fact.

In closing, as people are trying to say over on TC; wait and see. There's no need to get our blood pressure up about things we do not yet know.

Posted by: Jeff at Apr 6, 2005 4:41:09 AM

NEVER rely on a corporation to "take care of you." I just heard about this issue and am pissed, having just bought a box in Jan. I have been a DirecTV customer since it inception. I have evangelized D*TV to many friends and family. I may very well jump ship back to the cable criminals if this issue isn't resolved correctly. "almost free" swapouts had better mean $15 or less. The dirty little secret of HD is that there is very little content, especially if you cannot recieve the major networks. Not being in one of the top markets means that this new sat will most likely not allow network access just like D*TV only recently added locals to coverage.

Posted by: Lee at Apr 6, 2005 5:50:09 AM

I'm comfortable with my DirecTivo boxes (one series 1 and another series 2, both with major HD upgrades), but I am looking forward to the HD TV upgrade I expect to make in a few years. This HD confusion is one reason why I am waiting to see what happens to DirecTV and TiVo -- I am really happy being able to extract my shows the way I want to, now so I don't see an immediate need to make any changes. I just upgraded to FiOS from Verizon, so we'll see what their video offer looks like -- the high speed internet product is pretty awesome.

Posted by: Jonathan at Apr 6, 2005 7:00:08 AM

Thanks for posting this here Matt, I had been wondering about the HR10-250 for a while, but hadn't been following it recently. I feel like I dodged a thousand dollar bullet. Still, it's a shame, and I agree, the few HD channels available via DirecTV (now) are really not worth the cost and hassle, imho. But, as was advised above, I am waiting hopefully.

Posted by: alan taylor at Apr 6, 2005 7:01:55 AM

Ok, let me get this straight. You want an HDTivo to use on an EDTV? You want to pay extra money for high def channels that you can't watch in high def. Is that right? Just thought I'd ask...

Posted by: Leonard at Apr 6, 2005 8:32:40 AM

Jeff, even with a "wait and see" policy, for the remainder of 2005, it's still a thousand dollar box that gets less than ten channels of extra content. Bascially I'm saying that for this entire year, DirecTV can't match what comcast offers, at least where I live.

And Leonard, I don't want to get into a "whose equipment is bigger?" contest, but a downgraded 1080 or 720 signal on my EDTV will still look better than the standard satellite feeds I get now. I just want a clearer picture and 16:9 format shows.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Apr 6, 2005 9:00:36 AM

Anyone who actually pays $999 has far more money than sense and does absolutely no research. The street price is significantly less than MSRP and DirecTV credits can bring the final cost of an HR10-250 to less than half the MSRP.

Many of us are truly happy as clams and look forward to continued HD recording until DirecTV makes us an offer we probably won't want to refuse.

Posted by: Jon J at Apr 6, 2005 9:18:25 AM

A little bird told me that MPEG-4 will be made to work on the Tivo. No idea how true it is but I do trust that source was sincere. That being said the HD Tivo has a large number of other issues and D*TV has been sitting on a patch for it since CES with just pisses me off.
Honestly, if Comcast where to get the SciFi Channel in HDTV I would boot D*TV in a minute and put my HD Tivo up on Ebay, just rely Solly on myth box instead. I never did catch why the cable Co's must offer firewire output on there box's but the Sat's don't, anyone know the why of that?
Tivo made the classic mistake of giving away their customers with the D*TV deal. WIthout Tivo giving me updates and innovations to grow their product I have no real loyalty to them because, well quite frankly they are doing dick for me.
D*likes closed systems and so the hold everything back and trim it down and rip out features and do what ever they can to just barely not piss you off enough to leave and nothing more. Sad really.

Posted by: Griffon at Apr 6, 2005 9:59:11 AM

I think this just underscores TiVo's need to get a CableCARD solution to market for a digital cable standalone STB that can do HDTV.

Even if it's only a uni-directional CableCARD, they've got to get something working for HDTV besides OTA/ATSC.

Either that or a HDTV TiVo with some sort of firewire interface to HDTV digital cable boxes =)

*shrug*

rampy

Posted by: rampy at Apr 6, 2005 10:07:04 AM

You should probably ignore birds who don't know what they're talking about. How do you retrofit the MPEG-2 hardware decoder in the HR10-250 with an MPEG-4 solution? You don't.

I'd encourage the author to spend a little time on TC and AVSForum before calling doom. D* has a long history of swapping out equipment at no cost to the consumer. My guess is that the NDS DVR will be made freely available to those who want the channels D* offers in MPEG-4. Yes, this is only a guess, but any other supposition is the same.

You might even get lucky, your $1K on the HR10-250 (which should cost you much less if you do some research on the web and get D*'s programming credits) could net you a brand spanking new Home Media Center, which has some incredible capabilities promised.

I think dwelling on hardware obsolescence is a little silly - it is always the case. The bigger issue here is that D* is actually getting people to shell out the grand + $10/month for what amounts to 3-4 decent channels worth of programming! I for one, could care less about them surpassing the HR10-250's capabilities with the new MPEG-4 and Ka service. I'm much more interested in how much content they can offer after converting over to the new birds and encoders.

Posted by: Joe at Apr 6, 2005 10:28:22 AM

you'd be stupid if you didn't do a little research first on the Tivo Community forums first. I bought one and got a $250 bill credit, HBO, the HD package and Showtime for free for 6 months. They also installed a free triple LNB dish (required to see the HD sat)

Posted by: Rob at Apr 6, 2005 10:36:28 AM

As is stated above, the box isn't $999 anymore. Value Electronics has it for $799 (for TC members). Toss in the customer retention credits of up to $250 and if you're able to get some programming for free you've got a pretty good deal.

Granted, the DirecTV HD package isn't stellar. I plan to cancel it in the next couple of days now that I've about exhausted my CR credit. But I can also get OTA HD where I live, so it's was a decent deal for me.

And, I would never trust a company to look out for me. But I do trust that they look out for their bottom line. And in the case of DirecTV, customer retention is much less expensive than customer acquisition.

Posted by: Jeff at Apr 6, 2005 11:20:34 AM

Yep, not a good situation. I would never go back to cable so what I did instead is keep my standard-def DirecTivo and then just bought a Samsung over-the-air HD receiver for $100 on eBay. Pair that with a $70 Terk antenna from BestBuy and now I have free local channels in HD, along with DirecTV.

Posted by: Mike D. at Apr 6, 2005 11:49:37 AM

Great Blog Entry...I once had Dish Network with tivo stand alone units and everything was great...I move far away and get the latest Dish Network equipment from including two HD Receivers and one of their new pvr which really works great except for the fact of not getting Network HD channels directly through them and the HD receivers do not work with Tivo Series 2 stand alone units...so I scrapped that and wend with Comcast which for only $15 more a month gave me a HD PVR and content...cable is much better then anything when it comes to trying to record HD...once you go HD, you'll never go back

Posted by: Angel Avalos at Apr 6, 2005 12:17:59 PM

One thing to keep in mind with mpeg 4, they can upgrade their boxes via software to decode mpeg 4. I image the can capture the mpeg 4 feed and save it to disk without needing a hardware encoder/decoder. This puts more work on the receiver, but it can probably handle it.

Posted by: Rocky Moore at Apr 6, 2005 12:51:13 PM

I didn't mean to focus this entry on the hardware, or the price of it, and yeah, I know you can find it at around $600 if you look hard enough.

My point is that recording HD content on DirecTV for the next year kind of sucks, in that they can't offer much of anything while at least cable boxes abound that pull in local HD channels over the wire. I don't doubt that DirecTV will give cheap/free NDS boxes to HD TiVo owners, but a NDS box isn't a TiVo. It doesn't have the interface or features and I really wish DirecTV would renew their deal with TiVo and release MPEG4 DirecTiVo boxes someday soon, but I know with the ownership of NDS and the TiVo/Comcast deal, the chances of that are slim to none.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Apr 6, 2005 6:07:57 PM

Get Voom.

www.voom.com

There isn't a HDDVR yet from them, but with up to 39 channels of true HDTV, you won't want to leave home anyways.

:)
Vission

Posted by: vission at Apr 6, 2005 6:59:54 PM

"Get Voom."

This is a joke, right?

You are aware that Voom is going out of business?

Posted by: David Deane at Apr 6, 2005 7:24:50 PM

This may or may not be as big of an issue as people might think. I was bitching about this last Sunday at thomashawk.com but more clarity is needed from DirecTV.

Dropping local high def may be the political line from but DirecTV does have a second network programming package in addition to a local programming package that you may or may not know about and I get it here now in San Francisco. It's called "Network from NYC/LA Monthly" and they charge $2.25 per month per network for it. So I pay $9 a month and basically get all four networks in HDTV. Now I know that this is not "local" HDTV. But as far as I'm concerned "local" is irrelevant. I really want local only so that I can get HDTV Network programming.

In fact I much prefer getting the "Network from NYC/LA Monthly" line up as I get both East Coast and West Coast feeds. As if my four tuner HDTV TiVo were not enough, when I have East and West Coast feeds to choose from any possible recording conflict is eliminated. It also gives me the opportunity to watch Desperate Housewives at 7 p.m. on Sunday night (broadcast on the East Coast at 6 p.m. PST) and still be able to fast forward through all of the commercials.

Now I think you have to kind of be tricky about how you get "Network: from NYC/LA Monthly" but if you can find the right guy at DirecTV (you may need to convince them that you cannot get local reception in your area) you should be able to sign up for it.

I still may get screwed by Rupert and his cronies but as long as they leave the "Network: from NYC/LA Monthly" in an HDTV format that my HDTV can receive (along with the other current premium HDTV content, HBO, Showtime, Mark Cuban, etc.) then I will be a happy camper. They can drop local HDTV programming all that they want. If on the other hand they drop the "Network: from NYC/LA Monthly" broadcasts then I'm probably screwed and you'll probably hear a lot more bitching from Thomas Hawk on the matter.

I've got a screen shot of my bill to show you what it looks like up at: http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/pvrblog-on-directvs-hd-problem.html

Posted by: Thomas Hawk at Apr 7, 2005 9:30:11 AM

No. "Get Voom" wasn't a joke.

I've had it for over 6 months, and have been happy with it ever since. There is the slight possibility that they may go out of business at some point in time. But some people with a lot of money are trying to keep it alive. Since like me without Voom your HDTV options a little to none.

On top of that it's still cheaper than Adelphia cable was so even if they shut down next month I'll still have enjoyed the ride.

Posted by: voom at Apr 7, 2005 1:23:17 PM

Anyone getting into Voom now is nuts.

Might as well try to buy a ticket on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

Maybe the handful of existing Voom subscribers will survive in their lifeboats until rescue ships arrive; maybe rescue will never arrive. I wouldn't want to be in their boat, either way.

If I were in the market for HDTV I would give Voom a pass, until we definitely know that it will survive in some form - in spite of what the above poster says, the prospects are extremely poor for the survival of whatever is still left of Voom.

Posted by: Voom go boom. at Apr 8, 2005 12:09:54 AM

I just called D* to request the NYC/LA Networks on HD and got stone walled. They said there aint no such thing and explained that the only avenue available for receiving HD network broadcast is the standard waiver request that can take up to 45 days. Off the air antennas are not an option where I live.

Posted by: Charles Fernandez at Apr 8, 2005 7:02:52 AM

If you get a crappy local HD signal, you should be eligible for the DirecTV signal. This is the case with non-HD channels as well. I've heard the stations maintain broadcast area maps. If you fall outside of that, it is simple, if you are in that and still have crappy reception, you can challenge the ruling and get your reception measured.

Posted by: Scott Carlson at Apr 8, 2005 1:23:22 PM

I have not yet seen the NDS box that D* will be putting out. So I have no opinion one way or the other on that subject. Well, except that so far no one has been able to match Tivo, so they have a tough road to hoe.

And to toss some more logs of speculation onto this bonfire of conjecture, I read over at TC that a rumored swap-out plan will have us HR10-250 owners receiving one of the Ucentric Media Center "things" they announced at CES.

Posted by: Jeff at Apr 11, 2005 8:08:18 AM

[QUOTE]But it doesn't end there -- DirecTV sent up a couple new satellites last year to increase their bandwidth for more HD channels.[/QUOTE]

Just a note, the first two Spaceways don't go up until this summer, and should start providing service towards the end of this year (~90-120 days after launch or so).

Posted by: GFreak at Apr 14, 2005 7:51:50 AM

One drawback to the cable HD boxes and EDTV plasmas is that SD channels may look like complete garbage on these TV's. A friend of mine has a Panasonic 42" EDTV (one of the best made, IMO) and his comcast HD channels look fine (not true HD), but his SD channels are totally unacceptable.

His friend, in the same building, has the same TV, with DTV. His SD channels look far better, even being broadcast over the air via Frog. I suppose it depends on your cable company, but I'd not be a happy camper were I to have invested in an EDTV and had my SD channels look like a decaying amalgamation of digital artifacts. More HD choices, perhaps, while SD channels suffer on anything less than a true HD set or non-plasma display.

That tells me Comcasts 'digital' signal isn't anything to write home about. Might work for some, but not for those with EDTV plasma displays.

I would imagine DTV will take care of those without MPEG 4 capability for free, or for the cost of shipping, which wouldn't be a bad deal. They'd probably even be willing to throw in some more free credits for the trouble if you were to talk to the CSR department. I would imagine the swap to be a rollout that may happen a bit too slowly for some.

Posted by: Sig at Apr 20, 2005 5:43:52 AM

I'm also freaking out a bit about the future of HD and D*TV. I have a Directv with Tivo box (dual tuners for standard recording) and a Zenith 520 D*TV receiverfor pulling in HD signals from D*TV. Getting local channels via antenna in Philly is impossible, in my view. Anyway, we get the network feeds from NYC for CBS, NBC, ABC and Fox (not PBS, UPN, etc.) and we only pay the $11 for the HD package. I never heard of the LA/NYC feed, and I never asked for anything. The HD channels just appeared (though Fox disappeared for awhile, but came back). They are on 80, 82, 86 and 88.

Weird how no one else mentioned it above.

And I ALMOST bought the HR10-250. Even with the discount, decided there wasn't anything on worth recording (not until football season). So I will wait until Sept. and see what happens. I really hate the idea of having to change dishes to get the MPEG-4 signals. I paid a lot of dough to move from the standard D*TV dish to the tri-LNB dish. I'm sick of paying for upgrades. Though I will say that D*TV has been pretty good, and I can't believe Murdoch et al will just let all of us leave the nest and head for (ugh) Comcast. It's just not logical. They must have some plan for staying competitive in the HD world. They better have is all I can say.

Posted by: Tom at Apr 20, 2005 12:23:49 PM

Like everyone else here, I'm really frustrated by the lack of a reasonable HD solution from DirecTV--defined as reasonably priced and not likely to become obsolete before Christmas.

Following the cablecos and EchoStar, it appears DirecTV will continue to sidestep third-party equipment vendors (read: the new DVR will be DirecTV branded) when it moves to MPEG-4. The company has stated clearly that there will be no backward compatability with the existing equipment, so *everything* we have now will be as useful as an 8-track tape deck. The real question then becomes cost-of-hardware: low "rental" costs across time like cable/Dish or high upfront purchase.

Sig's observations regarding Comcast vs. DirecTV image sounds right to me. When I tried Comcast's NTSC "digital" service, the cable picture was inferior to the satellite on the same monitor at the same time. Comcast also over-compressed the HDTV signals, resulting in excessive artifacts (with Olympians' arms and legs disappearing into a blur as they ran or swam, while their faces and the background stayed razor-sharp). When I had the service disconnected, the tech confided that Comcast was forcing more than 40 analog signals though one QAM (digital cable) channel. Humph for their quality. Ditch the dish? Not in this product cycle.

Of course, DirecTV is compression-happy, too. DirecTV provides NY/LA FOX-HD channels to subscribers whose local FOX affiliate is FOX-owned (http://www.newscorp.com/management/foxtvstations.html) and I can plainly see a quality difference when switching between the OTA and SAT feeds (NFL, NASCAR and American Idol).

I think the bottom like is we're still very early adaptors. DirecTV subscribers will pay a premium price for minimal services and already-obsolete equipment for the forseeable future. DirecTV is not forthcoming with information about either the hardware or how much it'll cost us to acquire it. Grin and bear it.

Posted by: Ed Hansen at Apr 20, 2005 4:09:46 PM

Just returned my second H-10 Directtv receiver. Hdmi does not work! Won't function in native mode unless you use component video out. Also color is very poor with red bleed. Non-HD channels very poor quality. My old non-hd Phillips provides superior (non-hd) picture. I think DirectTV has a major problem with this receiver they are not owning up to. Direct tech visited and told me he has seen this problem more than once.

Posted by: Bill Steinberger at Apr 21, 2005 7:44:39 AM

I'm so sad that Voom is going. I have been with them for 9 months and have been so happy. I have Directv at my office and the quality is lacking in comparison. Now I have ordered Directv's HD package to be installed on the day of Vooms death 4/30. I will miss all that great HD.

Posted by: Dan Lebental at Apr 22, 2005 2:25:17 PM

I know I'm not an idiot, but this HD/Tivo/Direct Tv black hole I'm living in needs some sunlight.

I just bought a HD ready TV and I have directv with Tivo. I've researched the DVR/HD package and I just can't bring myself to spending $900 and after reading this forum I don't think it's even an option now. However, I was told that I can get a receiver online that will pick up an HD signal and plug it into my tv. The question I have is, does the HD signal come from the dish or the receiver? Do I have to upgrade my dish too? Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do and how can I do it for as little money as possible? The Ttv doesn't come until tuesday so I have time to think this through. Thanks, I really appreciate it.

Posted by: BP at Apr 24, 2005 6:09:45 PM

I just called DirecTV and asked them about it. I got a knowledgable, helpful operator. He said...

1) I know of no problems; we have no new hardware in the pipeline to replace the HD/TiVos.

2) If there is an issue with the new satellites and a software update can't help we'd take care of you, since there is a $1k investment with these receivers. There may be new hardware like a new dish or additional receiver box required. He stopped just short of saying they'd supply that equipment for free, but he didn't say that wouldn't happen.

3) We plan to continue to support these units.

4) This isn't the first phone call and question I've had about this. I asked him if he'd let his supervisor know that these questions are being asked and his answer was "yes." These concerns have been forwarded up the chain.

FWIW.

Posted by: Katz at Apr 28, 2005 3:38:01 PM

being a DIRECTV employee I though I`d shed what light I can on some of the things I`ve seen here. DNS, as it is called (distant network service)is available to those who do not get their "locals" but it is true that we cannot just "turn it on" it is not a decisoin that is made by DTV but by your local affilliate and therefore we must apply for such service, it can take up to 45 days for a response, but sometimes there is an immediate response. Hd is a relatively new thing, and is still growing, but I do know that DTv is dedicated to providing the best hd possible. The channel choices at this point may be limited, but that is because DTV will not provide a hd channel unless it it ALL hd, not just some or most of it. The technical questions posed here I may not have the answers to, but as one of you said, it makes sense to take care of our loyal customer, and we will do our best to do just that.

Posted by: bill at May 3, 2005 7:11:58 PM

I'm not an expert on this subject but after reading the entirety of this blog, I felt compelled to read more on the subject. Based on a press release today, Voom's parent company (Cablevision) has decided to shut down Voom. Upon hearing this, Echostar snapped up 10 of Voom's hdtv channels and can now stake claim of having more hdtv channels than any other provider, cable or sat, at 19.

Additionaly, because d*tv's satellites won't launch for another 2-3 months and are already committed to providing 11 local hdtv channels when they do, d*tv will be hard pressed, space-wise, to increase that number.

Add the fact that their relationship with tivo will probably end when the contract does ('07) and suddenly Dish Network is looking attractive, at least for the next couple of years anyways. Unless you opt for cable, which, all things considered, wouldn't be a bad choice.

The X factor in all of this is Rupert. If and when tivo partners up with Comcast after '07, Rupert will undoubtedly be ready for that challenge. But at what expense. The fact that hdtv has moved so slow - notice how the fcc's own dtv deadline is about to pass with nary a 1 paragraph press release - and playing catch up to Echostar, let's hope Murdoch comes to the fight with his six guns loaded.

Posted by: Tony at May 3, 2005 8:53:35 PM

I just bought a HD TiVo (Online - $670) and like many - I will sacrafice for the HD. I do want more for my $10.99 - but we have to remember, we're still in a very looonngg transitional stage. I live in the bay area and the only local major station I can not get yet is FOX - who I have to request again after 60 days from denial - unless someone out there knows something I don't.

Truthfully, I didn't know I could combine two receivers... I don't necessarily need to record HD... but I thought in order to receive HD AND record my shows (2 tuners) on the same TV - I needed the HD TiVo. Either way... I almost paid $450 for a regular HD receiver and installation of the new dish (BestBuy). I can eat the $250 difference if there is a change in hardware... but I don't think HD TiVo customers will be ignored... We are enthusiasts that like our toys - it would be in DirecTV's best interest to keep us around and make us happy. But don't give me anything other than TiVo - many can copy.. but none can compare.
I hope we don't have to change my current setup - I'm happy waiting for more HD channels and keeping my TiVo... but we'll see - I will enjoy what I have now and hope for the best.

PS - I have the Panasonic EDTV discussed above... after a lot of research - this is by far the best EDTV out there... and although it is not HDTV... the picture is phenomenal - and BETTER than many HDTV models... with great black-levels. Overall - a very good picture for half the price of its HDTV counterpart. I had the issues with basic programming until I hooked it up through HDMI... huge difference/great picture.

Posted by: Ernie at May 4, 2005 5:14:36 PM

Guess what guys? Dish Network is coming out with an HD 2 tuner DVR for only $250!!! Look at www.Kaptainsatellite.com. It has it's own tuner for local HD channels. Also I've seen where the new Directv NDS DVR will NOT record HD programming just SD. I know Dish has had some glitches but who hasn't. I don't know about you but I'm switching to DISH! Who needs a $1,000 paperweight! I loved Tivo but I'd love to record in HD even more.

Posted by: Tracy at May 4, 2005 5:58:05 PM

Been a DirecTv customer since 1999 and an HD one since 2002. Anyone know if they actually launched the satellites to bring more HD? I thought that was supposed to be done last year. I agree their HD offering is terrible. What they have displays great. But trying to get answers from them about their HD plans is like pulling teeth. I have the Samsung HD box which is great. But it seems from what I have read is that it will not pickup the new HD offerings. Am I ready that right? Thanks for any info I can get.

Posted by: Rick at May 11, 2005 5:31:42 AM

DirecTV launched the first new sat a couple of weeks ago. http://www.sea-launch.com/past_launches.htm

Posted by: Jeff at May 14, 2005 3:00:05 AM

Right now I live in a city that will definitely not be able to get local HD from DTV until at least 2007. If I say my address is Washington DC whey I sign up for service, or another of the 12 local areas getting HD later this year, will I be able to get HD for ABC, CBS, FOX & NBC? If this is possible, the only downside I see would be having to get local channels of another city. Right now I'm thinking of getting HD cable so that I can get the networks in HD, but I really have no desire to deal with cable again.

Posted by: Fitz at May 19, 2005 12:11:54 PM

Just bought a 42" panasonic HDTV and an H10 HD receiver. All hooked up with HDMI. HD is fine, but SD/regular programming signals look like crap. Will try (previous poster) Ed's suggestion on switching back to my old non-HD receiver and see what happens.

Posted by: Jeff at May 29, 2005 9:52:45 PM

I live in Colombia South America, I want to get HD in my country.... the only way that I can get HD is by getting a company like Directv HD that works just in the USA, because the only system that we use here is NTSC..... I want to know wich satellite does DirecTV HD uses ?, so I will be able to look the footprint of the satellite and find out if I am able to donwlink the signal in Colombia.... but if anyone knows if this is posible please let me know.

Also i May need to buy a biger antena, can you tell me where I can buy one that works with HD feeds ?

Posted by: Juan at Jun 17, 2005 5:50:39 PM

I'd be curious to get opinions on chosing b/w DirectTV and Comcast digital cable. I've had DirectTV for eight years but will be moving soon and have a choice to make. I appreciate the advise. Thank you

Posted by: Greg at Jun 21, 2005 3:48:38 PM

I have had my DirecTV since it wwent on sale in California, I have a Phillips HDTV and an HD DTV Tivo, I have a HD ready Phillips TV in the bedroom with no HD hooked up, the HD Picture is very good but the non HD picture is exceptional as well, I think if I had it to do over again I would pass on the HD, the Picture is sharper but my non HD Picture is great so where's the benefit A lot of money for some sharpness, absoloutly not worth it to me, my HD purchase was a mistake, I should have waited untill I was forced to change.

Posted by: Ben at Jun 30, 2005 9:49:25 PM

Does the DTV HD receiver has HDMI connection? If so, will DTV provide the cable. If they don't have HDMI how should I set it up?

Posted by: sobe at Aug 5, 2005 10:48:08 PM

The DTV HD Tivo does have an HDMI connection. It does come with cables. Component, HDMI, etc...

Just made the plunge and bought for $670... received a triple LNB dish, a worldDirect dish (for international programming), installation of both dishes and HD free for 3 months and international programming free for 2 months.

Posted by: Praneeth at Aug 8, 2005 2:26:13 PM

DirectTV has HD TiVO for $299 now with $100 rebate, plus $90 off programming for 6 months. I got it and it's great! I was also able to get some HD networks added due to my location. Even with MPEG-4 coming, for this price it's worth doing. I am baffled by the comment above that HD isn't that much better, it is astounding in its clarity (on 50" Panasonic HD plasma). Some of the shows on Discovery HD are incredible.

Posted by: ChrisZ at Aug 23, 2005 9:34:10 AM

I just spent over an hour on the phone with four different directv reps. I realized today that our hi def east-west network channels were no longer available, when they were available just last night. I was told that an ruling went into effect today making it illegal for them to provide hi def network programming. They said they would have to disconnect my analog networks and then apply for waivers from my local stations for the hi def signals.

I insisted they keep our analog channels on until the waivers are considered, which they did. But I am so mad about this because we did not receive any notice that these channels would be taken away from us.

We just got the hi def programming about three weeks ago. I also bought an off-air antenna with which they said we would be able to receive our local channels. This is a piece of junk...not one network channel comes in. We did receive our Nebraska PBS stations but I see now that they are not coming in anymore either.

Is anyone else experiencing this same situation?

Posted by: JulieS at Aug 30, 2005 1:20:26 PM

I just dropped Comcast (Philly) for DTV. I had a HORRIBLE installation, but they help absorb the pain with programming credits and free HD Dish.

I have a Samsung HLP5674W HDTV, but do not have the HD receiver. I was hoping to have an incredible picture, but the S-Video connection and SD rec kill me. I am hooked on the TIVO stuff now so I don't know what to do. Every option I weigh hurts the wallet. I keep reading all these posts about the "new" programming DTV will offer, but no CSR spoke with will confirm anything. I sympathize with those who spent $1000 on something that may be phased out by year end. I wish you the best of luck.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am new to the HD scene and it seems like some of you have this thing fiqured out. I just want a HD picture for my HDTV and want to record stuff too. Is it best for me to wait until end of the year? How much will these MPEG4 Tivos cost? I can't shell out a grand!!! I got two little kids and they need to eat.

Off the HD topic...I switched to Verizon FIOS (instead of Comcast High Speed). BEST decision I ever made. I only picked up the 5\2 service, but speed tests stated the facts. I am 4.8 down, 1.7 up for $39.95. Compare this to my cable speeds (2.2 down, .4 up)...EASY CHOICE! No modem rental BS or line charges to jack up the price either. $10 more gets you the 15\2 service ( I could only imagine). I highly recommend it for any skeptics out there. I also hear Verizon will be offering video within the next year or so. It will be nice to have options.

For speed test, go to bluemarble.net. Go to the technical support page. It's worth researching.

Any input on the HD woes I am having would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: Vic A at Sep 1, 2005 6:51:46 PM

Right now, DTV is offering HD TIVO's for $299 minus a $100 rebate, and will install it free. Call DTV and ask to speak to Customer Retention. When MPEG-4 Video is offered late this year, or early next year, they will swap your HD TIVO for a MPEG-4 HD DVR, probably at no cost to you. In the meantime, you will enjoy great HD on your Samsung 56" HDTV. I own two HD TIVO's, and just added a 400 gb hd to one, to provide 83 hrs. of HD recording(total 650 gb). Go for it! DTV has a great reputation for treating customers well. Good Luck.
Bob

Posted by: Bob at Sep 5, 2005 12:29:51 AM

FYI:
----

Network from NYC/LA Channels are authorized by the FCC.

Any DirecTV Exployee can personally get fined $10,000 fine if we turn them on for you.

so finding "the right person" is totally wrong. and trying to "convince" or "lie" whatever term you perfer will not work again FCC says Yes or No if you get the Network from NYC/LA Channels..

DirecTv mearly fills out a waiver for YOU. thats all.

Posted by: DTV Tier2 at Sep 9, 2005 6:02:57 AM

I just spoke with customer retention at DirectTV as I was considering switching to Comcast because I am buying an HDTV. I got the upgrade to an elliptical dish and an HDDVR for $299 with a $100 rebate. The rep assured me that the DirectTV policy is that any customer with HDDVR will be upgaded at NO CHARGE to the next generation dish and HDDVR when they become available. The deal was too good for me to pass up!

Posted by: Scott at Sep 9, 2005 4:00:17 PM

Anybody have any idea whether or not there will be a "Tivo version" of the MPEG-4 DirecTV boxes? I read a while back that DTV was going to continue to support Tivo customers on an "ask for it" basis as they roll out (and push) their own DVRs. Any ideas?

Posted by: Alfonzo S. Tangerine at Sep 12, 2005 7:33:01 AM

I for one recently left D* because of the ridiculous price of hardwre and that D* did not want to give me a break. I have had an HDTV set for 3yrs now and only get OTA signals (via 30' arial).

I thought I would be lost without my dual-tuner Tivo, despite the rotten, pixelated, compressed excuse for a signal. Once I got my STB It was hard to watch DirecTivo again. I knew cable was worse...much worse.

So what did I do? I built a Home Theatre PC and exploited my ($44mo) Cable Internet connection to the hilt. I know its not for everyone, but I enjoy downloading EVERY show I want to watch, that some kind soul has recorded for me on their PC. What is the quality like you ask? Well, if the show was HD, so is my file (within 80% of original OTA quality - gobs better than I have seen on D*HD OR Cable HD). Why would you go thru this hassle you ask? Well, the shows quality is superior (audio and video) the commercials are already removed and I can't ever "miss" anything, as it will be available for download for days, if not weeks.

The best, and mind blowing part is that a 1hr show (avg 41min sans commercials) takes up just 350mb (thats 457 1hr shows on my smallish 160gb drive before I have to burn a DVD). Sure you have to get CODECs just so, and sometimes it takes several hours to dowload a show, but if you just stop watching for a day, it all evens out. There are literally hundreds of sites to help one get started down this path, so I don't consider it an obscur concept.

I sit on my couch and watch my shows via my Window XP Media Center Edition with my remote control in hand on my 57" Hitachi via the DVI cable at 1080i. Will I ever give up FREE everything and go back to D*, sure - When all their ducks are in a row and the hardware is reasonabley priced. But for now, til next year, I have it all and it is free*.

*PC and time spent not included.

Posted by: bigbrain29 at Sep 13, 2005 2:28:46 PM

I moved to Kansas City last November and had a Movers option on my Dtv. I now have a 61" Samsung HP-6163W DLP televison with a Dtv hr-250 TiVo receiver with dual-HD tuners. I have a theree LNB sat dish that supports HD. I have added a Terk tv38 OTA antenna. I use a Logitech Harmony remote to control everything. I have a JVC stero 5.1 dual room receiver that uses S-Video.

I connect the Dtv HR-250 to the Samsung TV via HDMI and use the fiber optic to connect to the JVC.

I know the Microsoft XBox 360 is coming out soon and the Sony PlayStation 3 isn't too far behind.

I also have a ASUS computer I built with a ATI Radeon 9250 AGP 8x Video Graphics Card that uses DVI/VGA connectors. This is connected to Samnsung via both the RGB (VGA) and DVI. It also has a DVD drive so I can play DVD movies on the TV.

I would like to replace the JVC with a stereo receiver that supports multiple HDMI inputs with at least a single HDMI output to the Samsung. It would be nice is this receiver also supported DVI inputs.

The world is an ever changing place and I like what I have. Everything works pretty good. I get my locals usimg the OTA. The local HDs are great. The commercials are boradcast in 780 but the actual HD shows are in 1080 and look great.

With all of these different devices using either DVI or HDMI but only havi ng one of each on the TV, the receiver needs are greatly need to control all of these devices.

Does anyone know of a receiver that will handle this and be atl east 5.1 if not 7.1 for a somehaqt reasonable cost?

Posted by: GoodMan at Sep 26, 2005 8:30:04 AM

I moved to Kansas City last November and had a Movers option on my Dtv. I now have a 61" Samsung HP-6163W DLP televison with a Dtv hr-250 TiVo receiver with dual-HD tuners. I have a theree LNB sat dish that supports HD. I have added a Terk tv38 OTA antenna. I use a Logitech Harmony remote to control everything. I have a JVC stero 5.1 dual room receiver that uses S-Video.

I connect the Dtv HR-250 to the Samsung TV via HDMI and use the fiber optic to connect to the JVC.

I know the Microsoft XBox 360 is coming out soon and the Sony PlayStation 3 isn't too far behind.

I also have a ASUS computer I built with a ATI Radeon 9250 AGP 8x Video Graphics Card that uses DVI/VGA connectors. This is connected to Samnsung via both the RGB (VGA) and DVI. It also has a DVD drive so I can play DVD movies on the TV.

I would like to replace the JVC with a stereo receiver that supports multiple HDMI inputs with at least a single HDMI output to the Samsung. It would be nice is this receiver also supported DVI inputs.

The world is an ever changing place and I like what I have. Everything works pretty good. I get my locals usimg the OTA. The local HDs are great. The commercials are boradcast in 780 but the actual HD shows are in 1080 and look great.

With all of these different devices using either DVI or HDMI but only havi ng one of each on the TV, the receiver needs are greatly need to control all of these devices.

Does anyone know of a receiver that will handle this and be at least 5.1 if not 7.1 for a somehaqt reasonable cost?

Posted by: GoodMan at Sep 26, 2005 8:30:53 AM

I have been searching for a consumer level reciever that supports DVI and/or HDMI HD switching. I am of the opinion that no such thing exists (yet) I did find one rec with DVI in/out but it was well over $3K. Even a KVM (Keyboard, Video, Mouse) switch that handles DVI seems to be in the $200-400 range, and who wants that extra piece doing the job?! I have seen a fair amount of "upsampling" receivers that take any video source and output (with adequate bandwidth) to component (RGB), BUT most only accept 2 in 1 out. Currently I have my Xbox and DVD passing thru mu Receiver (Component) and my PC connected DVI direct to TV and STB connected Component direct also. I have seen some great deals on nice rec's, but I refuse to make a lateral move. I intend to wait until the 7.1 HDMI/DVI switching reciever evolves.

Posted by: bigbrain29 at Sep 26, 2005 11:39:44 AM

My only issue, or question is: I've heard that the next gen DVR by D* will NOT be Tivo and that the relationship will actually be completely severed. So, I'm curious if anyone has inside scoop on the new HD DVR Directv will be replacing the current HD Tivo with - will it be made by Hughes? Will it be a first generation (or, in other words: "crap")? I remember my very first DVR many years ago - it was a Dish network DVR and it sucked. It's what made me switch to Directv in the first place, and I've been happy ever since. My happiness even grew as Tivo got in bed with Directv and made my world even better. Now, they are moving on to something new, and I'm a bit nervous about the implications. Any facts someone has would be greatly appreciated!

Posted by: Tait at Sep 26, 2005 9:57:50 PM

I just called and spoke with eventually Customer Retention. I told them that I was thinking of switching to cable (although I have no plans to do so) and they were able to get me the HD DVR for 299 with a 100 rebate so in essense it will be 199 in the end. They also reassured me that any switch in technology would be handled by them free of charge. So get them while they are hot a cheap!

Posted by: john at Sep 28, 2005 9:48:13 AM

ok, i have a question; I WAS a D* customer for many years, when it came time for a new Tivo, I cancelled and had my GF set-up an acct (@ same address) so we could get the freebies. That account was closed in April 05. If I call now what are my odds on getting the same deal u folks are swinging thru cust. ret.? By deal, I mean the HDTivo for $299 w/$100 rebate.

Posted by: bigbrain29 at Sep 28, 2005 11:20:23 AM

Ditto to all those who have indicated that this a phantom problem, DirecTV will most definitely replace the HD DVR with an MPEG4 version when the time comes.

As for a cheap receiver that does HDMI switching, and upconversion on all other video inputs, there are two new JVC 7.1 receivers that accomplish the task (RX-D401S/D402B and the RX-D702B) that are shipping right around now for ~$500 and ~$800 respectively. Best deal going in my book.

Posted by: jjbeantown at Sep 28, 2005 11:25:41 PM

Thanks to all you geeks out there. I was waiting for the DTV HD Tivo to come down from 1000 bucks for 6 months and I was about to buy one for 500 when I read some of these posts and decided to try this Customer retention ploy of telling them I want to upgrade but I'm getting all these free offers from the cable companies.When I said the Magic words " I want to cancel " they could stop giving me things. I got for $ 199.00 after rebate a HD DVR, 6 months free HD service, A triple LNB Dish, a terk antennae, and when I mentioned I was thinking of adding showtime, she threw in 6 months free showtine AND free installation. all for 199 bucks. Thanks Geeks of America

Posted by: Jeff at Sep 30, 2005 2:58:03 PM

I just got off the phone with Directv Customer retention. The best offer they would give me is $499 plus $100 rebate and $90 off next 6 months of programming. Does anyone know if the 299 offer ended in Sept? I pressed them as hard as you can press someone.

I might try a different rep tomorrow, but if anyone knows anything let me know.

Posted by: patrick at Oct 4, 2005 4:22:08 PM

DirecTV only offered me 499 with 100 rebate and 90 off future programming. Did the 299 end? I pressed them as hard as I could. Has anyone gotten the 299 offer in Oct?

Posted by: patrick at Oct 4, 2005 4:25:51 PM

I got the 299 less 100 rebate just last week. installed yesterday

Posted by: bryan at Oct 6, 2005 8:13:30 AM

I have Adelphia cable with their HD DVRs (I have 3 HD TV)... my wife and I are into NFL so I decided to get rid of one of the DVRs and order Directv NFL ticket... I purchased the hr10-250 and was very disappointed with Tivo and the limited HD programming....NFL ticket was OK... but the interactive feature is not avaialble on the HD DVR. So I decided to bring back the receiver to CC ($699) and get a full refund and try and get Directv to give me a deal on the hr10-250, I would have been satisified with it if I could get it for 199 or less. They did not offer me anything close to 199 and I was talking to the retention group. I cancled my service because I am not signing up for 2 years on a plain HD reciever. I am ordering a H10 on ebay and will go month to month during NFL season. Directv is going to have to change their policy or they are going to lose marketshare!!

Posted by: eric at Oct 12, 2005 6:30:21 PM

I just called and talked to retention at DTV. They tried to sell me an HD Tivo for the price on the web and that's it. I'm a premium package and nfl package holder spending tons of cash there every month and they wouldn't hook me up. All they did was try to sell me on the HD service that they don't have yet and told me I should wait to go HD. I just got a new HD set, I am not waiting on them. I see cable in the very near future, I'm gonna take all the packages off and wait the NFL package out with bare minimum service. Calling the cable company now.

K

Posted by: Keith at Oct 17, 2005 11:40:59 AM

I'm assuming the deal you're talking about getting is as follows:

it is the customer retention line for DirecTV... 800-XXX-XXXX
Tell them you want to order the HD10-250 Receiver for the special price of $299.00 + $100.00 mail in rebate....you will also receive a FREE 3LNB DISH (if u need one) AND FREE INSTALLATION.... they will explain the rest. They even offered me $5.00 off the HD package for 6 months .. so i am getting that for $5.99 AND...I am getting Showtime FREE for 6 months and am paying $2.00/mo for HBO ...

I did this last month, Oct. 5 and just got my rebate information last week. It worked for me but I ended up getting it for $199 when all is said and done.

Posted by: Joey Baby at Nov 6, 2005 4:03:17 AM

DirecTV bamboozled me, BIG TIME!! I am not very happy, I can tell you that. I wanted an HD DVR but I did not want a Contract, since I currently have a DVR with no contract. I bought a slightly used receiver for $416 on eBay and when it came I was really excited. I called DirecTV to activate the receiver and add the HD Package and he says he will give me 3 months free. I thought that was very nice and everything started coming in and we hung up. The next day I look at my online billing and there is an Annual Commitment on my bill. I call them back and tell them I did not want an annual commitment, if I had I would have sent in the rebate. The rep says he will notate my account to have the commitment taken off. I check again the next day and the commitment is still on there, so I call and ask to speak to a Supervisor. She tells me that their new policy is that any time you activate an "Advanced Receiver" such as a DVR you are AUTOMATICALLY required to do a 24 month commitment! I tell her I was not told of this and I want the receiver UN-ACTIVATED and I want my Commitment taken off of the account. She says that she CANNOT Do this, once it is activated, then you are automatically commited. She said I could Cancel my Service, but I would have a $300 Cancellation Fee. She offered to give me a $20 a month credit since I have the Premier package for the next 6 mos, plus a $100 mail in rebate to compensate me for the "Misunderstanding" I told her that this was a VERY SHADY way of doing business, and she gave me a load of crap about how I should have bought the receiver from direct sales. I probably wasn't going anywhere, but to be TRICKED into a 2 yr agreement is VERY, VERY DISSAPOINTING!

Posted by: BrandonGladish.com at Nov 17, 2005 6:28:26 PM

I'm very close to buying my firs HD set - probably a 32" LCD for the bedroom and wait on a larger plasma. I have two DirecTV receivers and my own panasonic dvd-hard drive recorder. I've already cabled (a second RG-6 line) to the future HD set location from the dish location.

My local channels are NYC. My plan was to get the HD Receiver Recorder and install a triple LNB dish.

Any suggestions / warnings? Looking for the best pricing.

Posted by: ed at Jan 2, 2006 1:53:46 PM

'Sup up my tech-head nizzles?!?!? After reading these posts and doing my own research, I'm getting nervous. I too did not want to buy a HD DVR for $999. So, I waited and bought the HR10-250 for $649 (w/ a $100 rebate making it $549) back in September '05 (only reason I have D* is for the NFL ticket, not the sad HD package, are u kidding me?!). Now I get a letter in the mail saying I have another $200 rebate coming to me. Is this so they can butter me up and say, oh, by the way, the HR10-250 won't receive local HD channels since it is MPEG-2 (Sacto market sucks, anyone know when those 7 satellites in the air will brodcast local channels in Cow-town?) and you need to spend more money not only on a receiver but also a dish? Or I hear swapping the gear for free? D* has me by the cajones. I'd switch to Comcast, but no NFL ticket (gotta keep up on my FFL playas!). Been a (captive) D* customer for 4 years now, but God forbid you make a late payment (online bill pay was down that day). D* was quick to call me and say where's the money? Pissed me off. Oh, by the way, want to have a laugh with cutsomer service? Ask one of the reps what channel NFL TV Game of the Week is broadcast in HD. Talk to 4 people, get 4 different answers. Peace out!

Posted by: Heavy D at Jan 7, 2006 10:16:27 PM

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