On TiVo Rebates

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On TiVo Rebates

Rebates seem to be a way of life for gadget loving shoppers, although I've never heard from someone who enjoys waiting for their savings to come in the mail. Over on the TiVo Community forums, TiVo Customer Support Program Manager Bill Dailey explains why TiVo uses rebates:

As to the idea of just lowering the price rather than offering a rebate, rebates are used for a couple of reasons (by just about every consumer electronics company out there):

1. Not everybody claims them. The fact that only a certain number of people will complete the rebate paperwork is figured into the cost of a rebate. Lowering the price would have a much larger financial impact than a rebate, likely making it impractical.

2. Just having a rebate drives people to buy products. Lowering the price $100 does not have the same effect as having a $100 rebate. People buy more products when there is a rebate - regardless of if the final price would be the same either way.

Above Dailey's post, another forum member points out that because not everyone redeems their rebates "if TiVo was going to drop the rebate, the price would drop by less than $100." Which would you rather have: a $99 TiVo with a $100 rebate or, for argument's sake, a $150 TiVo?

by George Hotelling February 28, 2005 in TiVo

Comments

"if TiVo was going to drop the rebate, the price would drop by less than $100." Which would you rather have: a $99 TiVo with a $100 rebate or, for argument's sake, a $150 TiVo?

I'd rather have the $150 TiVo. I hate rebates. Half the time I forget to fill out the form because I'm too busy. And even when I do fill it out, rebates often get mysteriously lost in processing and I never receive the money. And the few times I have gotten my rebate, it's taken over a month.

Posted by: Jamin Gray at Feb 28, 2005 2:18:30 PM

My wife works for a software company that often uses rebates as incentives to purchase. She tells me that the industry standard for rebate redemption is only 2%.

Everyone thinks they will submit the rebate, but in reality most people don't remember, let alone go to the trouble of saving paperwork, cutting UPC codes, filling out forms and mailing them in.

It's a win-win though. People think they are getting a great deal (and would be if they sent in the rebates) and companies don't have to discount every product - just the 2% (or whatever it is) that actually redeem.

And, to the points above, marketers can offer a much bigger rebate (that virtually no one will redeem) than a discount that everyone will get.

Posted by: David Paull at Feb 28, 2005 2:22:17 PM

I too would prefer the $150 Tivo. I think there are two additional things that need to be pointed out here:

1) Opportunity cost. With a rebate, the company gets to keep the extra money for the extra 6-8 weeks that it takes to process the rebate. If you add that up over thousands of purchases, it becomes a significant win for the company.

2) Rebates are usually outsourced to rebate redemption companies, and they are very good at "losing" rebate items or otherwise keeping legitimate rebates from being fulfilled. Since it takes 6-8 weeks most people forget by then and so they don't complain.

I usually track my rebates carefully and have had two such experiences. Once, I went to check my rebate status (thankfully, you can now often check online, and nowadays sometimes companies even email you status updates) and it said rejected because something was missing. I called the rebate company, waited on hold for awhile, and then a friendly csr came on and told me oh no, it's all there, we'll just clear that up in the computer. Another time I checked a rebate status and it was rejected, and the error message said that the postmark was past the due date, but the due date had not even arrived. So again I had to call and get that cleared up. If I hadn't bothered to keep track (remember this was like 8 weeks after the purchase) I would never have gotten my rebates. I'm not sure if the third party rebate redemption companies are incentivized to deny rebates, but sometimes it sure seems like it.

Posted by: Keith Hamasaki at Feb 28, 2005 3:05:46 PM

For me

most of the time seeing rebates will determine that I will NOT buy the item, nothing more infuriating to see all these rebates advertised

cant be bothered with them

Posted by: MB at Feb 28, 2005 4:49:05 PM

I would prefer to be asked at checkout whether I wanted the rebate and be given a web-tracking number on my receipt. They have all of the information at checkout to do this, but since it is a game of "whoever is lazy loses", we get to do the firedrill of wasted time and bs.

If you go to CompUSA, you almost invariably end up with 2 or 3 rebates included in your shopping basket. Like I have time to play this game.

The next thing to watch out for is your rebate in a "gift card" format - thanks.

Posted by: peBird at Feb 28, 2005 4:57:37 PM

My favorite rebate story is with Apple - I bought my daughter a new PowerBook + iPod at the newly opened Burlingame, CA store. I sent in all the paperwork (including scissoring out the UPC from the Apple cardboard boxes), and the rebate was rejected! They didn't have a store called Burlingame in their db - they said it had to come from an Apple store!! I guess reading the receipt wasn't good enough. Anyway, after a few calls it was cleared up (I think it was $200 or something, not real small).

Posted by: peBird at Feb 28, 2005 5:01:35 PM

My vote is I HATE the rebate scam. I can usually find the product online for about the same price without a rebate anyway. This stuff is driving me away from big retail stores to the point where I do all my gadget shopping online.

Sigh ... but I did just buy a $70 wireless router with $60 in rebates this week at Best Buy. I've already sent them off. At least I won't be that 98%.

Posted by: MrBlank at Feb 28, 2005 10:10:06 PM

Yeah, but its been over two months, where is my $100 rebate?!

Posted by: whatrebate at Feb 28, 2005 10:18:57 PM

Wait, if David is actually right (I would have a tough time believing it) and TiVo's rebate redemption percentage is hovering around 2%, then they should up the rebate to $200 and make the device free in the mind of the consumer.

At 2%, an additional $100 rebate would cost TiVo an extra $2/unit on average. (I'm not taking the cost of processing into account as they already experience the cost today with the existing rebate.) I would anticipate that demand would explode as it appears that a big complaint from most people over cable is the up-front cost of buying the hardware. Even if the redemption rate tripled for some reason, you're still talking $6 in exchange for substantially higher customer acqusition rates. This would appear to be a much better way to expend marketing dollars than 4 page glossies in The New Yorker.

But again, I don't think that 2% is reality, I'd have to see some evidence.

Posted by: Alex Rowland at Mar 1, 2005 1:17:09 AM

If Tivo would actually pay their rebates I don't know why anyone (other than those making $300/hour) would choose to pay $150 vs. $0. I'll take 20 minutes out of my day to save the money. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on my Tivo rebate from September, so I guess I'd prefer the $150 route as most everyone else here.

Posted by: Derek at Mar 1, 2005 3:23:25 AM

It took me over two months to receive my tivo rebate. But I was relentless on them warning them the whole way. At one point I recived a card saying that the items needed had not being received. Things moved quickly when I let them know I had a signed certified mail reciept showing they indeed had received it. Got it done failry quickly after that

Posted by: MB at Mar 1, 2005 5:45:58 AM

Several years ago, just as the Philips DSR6000 (Series 1 DirecTV receiver with TiVo) was being discontinued, Circuit City reduced the price to $99.99, so I bought one to complement my Sony SAT-T60. In retrospect, I should have bought several, but my wife would have complained about the extra equipment in the house.

Anyhow, this price reduction took place a couple weeks before the $100 rebate was being discontinued, so I was able to apply for the rebate. And yes, that rebate DID show up in the mail eventually, though I don't recall how long I waited. So I effectively got paid to take the TiVo off their hands!

Okay, not quite -- the purchase price was $99.99, and the rebate was $100.00, but there was still sales tax. (Why don't we get rebates of the sales taxes??) And I bought the extended warranty of course -- for a product under $100, a 5-year warranty was about $30. Considering that it's quite possible for a hard drive to fail within 5 years, it was a no-brainer...

Posted by: Deven at Mar 1, 2005 6:56:11 AM

i definitely would prefer the cheaper product to a rebate. i won't usually go through the hassle for a $5 rebate, but will for a $40+ rebate. the problem is you have to keep up with it because less scupulous companies might be willing to assume you've forgotten about it in the 10-72 weeks they give themselves to send the rebate.

i bought an Envision monitor from CompUSA once with a substantial rebate which i sent off immediately. after the time period was up, i received a card saying i had not submitted everything necessary. thankfully i had made copies of UPC and receipt. i called and informed them of this and was told it was only a mistake. the rebate would be out in another 5-6 weeks. still no rebate. call again. no record of your information. had to rant to about 5 different people before it was "found" in the system. rebate sent in another 5-6 weeks. no rebate is worth that.

good rebates wouldn't be too much of a problem if you could know that they would be paid in good faith. since i have found that you can't, i tend to avoid them. (i did get my tivo rebate as promised when i bought my first tivo a couple of years ago. still had to copy and file everything to make sure it was received.)

Posted by: Matthew at Mar 1, 2005 7:53:16 AM

It's fairly evident that the goal of these rebates is to incentivize buyers and then do everythingthing humanly possible to avoid paying the rebate. Why would so many of these posters report that as soon as they call and complain, "things get cleared up fast." The rebate processing companies get a kick for rejecting claims, and the consumer gets screwed. It's the American way. It's pathetic.

Posted by: Bruce at Mar 1, 2005 8:10:42 AM

I received my $100 TiVo rebate in 7 weeks. 1 week under the 8 weeks advertised. No phone calls, no hassels, just got the check in the mail as promised.

Concerning rebates in general. Any time I want to buy today I always check for rebates. Generally you get the product for 50% to 80% less than retail. Yes you do have to make copies of everything sent. Yes you do have to do follow up calls if rebate is late. Yes it does take time. Yes it does get frustrating sometimes. But if you look at the money saved vs the time spent, even with the late rebates you find out that you are getting paid a pretty decent hourly rate for doing the rebate dance.

The TiVo rebate for instance. I spent 15 minutes filling out the rebate form. 35 minutes driving to store, making copies of every thing and driving back. 15 minutes putting everything in envelope, stamping envelope and putting copies in file drawer. 20 minutes driving to and from post office. 12 minutes waiting in line at post office to send registered mail. $6 for registered mail. $2.00 on gas. $1.50 for copies(I make more than 1 copy of everything).

So lets see know. 1 hour 37 minutes total time. $100 rebate minus $9.50 expenses = $90.50 divided by 97 minutes = $55.98 an hour
made by you, me or anyone who goes for the rebate. If you make more than $55.98 an hour or $2,239 a week or $112,000 a year you might not want to mess with the rebate. If you make $28 an hour or less you could make twice as much or more as you do at work by going with the rebate. Course I'm retired and have all the time in the world. I like rebates. I guess it's a personal decision

Posted by: Karl Kennedy at Mar 1, 2005 10:11:36 AM

I registered my rebate online, but TiVo claimed not to received any of my rebate information by mail (right). When I eventually worked this out, they told me to resend it. Which I did. Then they rejected my application because the rebate date had passed.

It's just lame. They won. They got me to buy a TiVo, thinking I would save $100.

Posted by: John at Mar 9, 2005 3:28:51 PM

same thing happened to me. however I was an idiot....didn't have a copier at home and just "risked it" because it's always worked out before for me....the USPost Office is pretty good. I do Walgreens and CVS rebates and stuff and those ALWAYS work out. However with TiVo they didn't get it. I didn't copy the UPC...got copies of everything else AND bought it at tivo.com so they KNOW I bought it legitimately.
sucks.

Posted by: richard at Mar 10, 2005 1:22:12 PM

REBATES ARE FOR COMPLETE LOSERS!!!!!

Posted by: Peter Swanson at Mar 27, 2005 4:01:00 PM

3 months, and still waiting for my rebate check. After several phone calls and emails, Tivo claim`s to have sent it out. Now they are saying they are going to reissue a check. I`ll believe it when I see it.

Posted by: Nick at Mar 29, 2005 10:15:50 PM

TIVO rebate is a scam! They claim they didn;t receive my rebate and now I no longer have the bar code off the box as I sent it to them.

As a stock holder of Best Buy, I'm contacting investor relations and also sending letters to the CEO telling them how disapointed I am in Best Buy.

I'm sure I'm beat before I begin, WHAT A LOUSY SCAM BY BEST BUY!

Posted by: Paul Norman at Apr 2, 2005 6:54:45 PM

6 Month wait for rebate. I picked up a 40HR $199 in Nov 04, and purchased a Lifetime sub for $300. I ended up having to resubmit my docs and email once a month for 5 months before I could pull my $100 rebate from thier hands. Great product, but pulling a scam with the rebates.

Posted by: Paul at Jun 8, 2005 7:47:18 PM

Nick, you are a complete idiot if you think that your problem has ANYTHING to do with the actual retailer. Best Buy (or any other retailer) has nothing to do with the MANUFACTURER of the product. And yea, i'm sure the CEO of best buy will make sure you get that rebate....HA! it's ignorant people like you that get everyone else riled up about these things.

Posted by: chris at Sep 26, 2005 8:49:25 AM

Yes, rebate fufilment companies specialize in denying rebates. They've got loads of tricks including "losing" stuff in the mail, claiming errors that are not there, etc.

I suggest writing a letter to the manufacturer expressing your dissatisfaction in thier rebate company, and alleging fraud, if fraud has taken place. If enough customers contact the manufacturer they may reconsider thier practice, or at least use a more reputable fufillment company.

The corporate office address is:

2160 Gold Street
P.O. Box 2160
Alviso, CA 95002-2160

Tom Rogers is the CEO, Matt Wisk is the VP of Marketing. Sending letters to thier attention will get the attention of thier secretaries, and if enough are sent the suits may take notice.

It will take some energy to write these folks, lick a stamp and put it in the mail, but it has a much better chance of getting some results than complaining in a thread the manufacturer will never notice.

Posted by: Everitt CHase at Nov 20, 2005 2:51:22 PM

My experience with rebates has been excellent for the most part. I am very careful when I prepare them and I make sure that UPC codes are glued to either the form, receipt or blank sheet, and that everything is stapled and clearly marked. I make sure everything is postmarked by the deadline. I check and recheck everything before mailing. Of course I make copies of everything.

I have sent in probably around 100 rebates so far and had a few problems with some companies:

CompUSA uses other companies to process their rebates. If you look at their rebate page you will see the list of companies. The company that I had problems with is GFS Inc. A few years ago I sent in a Radio Shack rebate for some free CDRs, which was processed by them and I got a card saying that I didn't send within the deadline. I called and they immediately agreed to send the rebate and said it was a mistake. This year, I had problems where they rejected some of my CompUSA rebates claiming that I didn't include the PACKING SLIP. When I called they said I should just mail it in. So I did and I got 2 of the 3 they promised. Then I got smart and included both the receipt and packing slip and noted that I was including it as well since they requested it in the past. So now, I got 2 rejections saying that the timeframe of purchase was incorrect, however it was well within the promotion period, but while the receipt had the right date, the packing slip has the date of shipment which is later. I also made sure to put the packing slip last and the receipt before it. But whoever looked at it ignored the date on the receipt. I called the number on the rejection slip and spoke to someone who explained I can't speak directly to anyone at the rebate center but that I should just re-mail the receipts. I am going to call GFS first since I don't think I should be required to resend what I sent already, or at least they should let me fax it.

Other than that I had a bad experience with the infamous SOYO rebates. Got some barebones at Tigerdirect. So after not getting the two $50 rebates, I researched and found others have been jipped as well, but someone on some discussion board said he had contacted a certain individual at soyo, by email, and that person made sure the checks were sent. So I tried the same, and sure enough the person replied that the checks were mailed and I did get the 2 checks. Other than that I believe I sent a couple of rebates to an "iRocks" free mouse and USB hub, and some flash reader, which were supposed to be free after like a $10 or $15 rebate and I don't believe I ever received the rebates. I might try to follow up on those, since I just submitted some more rebates to them recently. That first purchase was maybe a year ago though.

One other problem was with another rebate processor and in that case they had me fax info in and reprocessed it and I got my check.

Another time was confustion about the amount--I got a $10 check and it was $20. I called and faxed in the rebate form, and they sent the other $10.

Once a rebate was lost -- this was a "credit protector" $10 deal in monthly payments. They also claimed it was the wrong date but it was not according to the certificate--so I called, explained, faxed in the info and they sent it. In fact they changed the wording on future certificates to make it clearer for the rebate company!

So with all my dozens and dozens of rebates I only had those few problems. I am not sure what the problem was with the Soyo rebates--confusion in their processing center or a real effort not to make good. They also switched their email address but announced the change. It didn't sound good though. The ones from processed by GFS with the rejection letters--looks like someone really incompetent processes some of these and doesn't look at the right dates or there is confusion about online receipts and packing slips. But I can't say after receiving so many rebates that rebate companies have some evil plot to cheat consumers out of rebates. However sending rebates is very difficult and time consuming for the average person and I think that with all the computerization and automation there must be an easier way to give people rebates, without having people mail in paperwork. Integration between the store's POS system and the rebate processing center can help ensure that the product was actually purchased in good faith and that it wasn't returned, simply by delaying the rebate beyond the return item terms of the store. Tigerdirect's association with "onrebate.com" is a step in the right direction since it automates part of the process and saves people from having to fill out forms by hand, as well as making it easier to follow the requirements of the rebate. I understand that Staple's easyrebates are completely an online process and are the easiest. It is unethical to promise consumers a certain price and make them work hard to receive the discount and there is no reason for it, except to possibly support people who get employment for processing rebates by hand... It's truly a very curious industry and causes people a lot of grief and anger. Time to move away from paper and get it all electronic.

Thanks for reading...

Posted by: Jerry Diamond at Nov 27, 2005 9:50:49 AM

I purchased the Humax 80hour a bit back and got my rebate in about 9 weeks. Pre-registered online. No issues.

As with a previous poster, I buy quite a bit of stuff on rebate and have rarely had an issue (once with Norton on a double rebate, the 2nd rebate never showed up...). Good luck so far. Been well over a grand in various rebates on items over the last year.

Posted by: Rob at May 25, 2006 3:26:47 PM

Don't forget the business side of the rebates (for the company). They can put out a marketing message that is very attractive, and it isn't fraud if it is tied to a rebate. Plus, they then get the 'breakage' for those who don't send in the rebate forms.

Posted by: Todd Lokken at Apr 10, 2008 8:40:09 AM

On TiVo Rebates

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