American Idol blocking fast forwards

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American Idol blocking fast forwards

Story_comcast_dvr_2_2 Lost Remote is reporting that one of their readers couldn't fast forward while watching an episode of American Idol he recorded on his Comcast HD-DVR, but could on other shows. The reader in question, even sent in this photo showing the unversal "no" symbol, which we assume showed up while fast forwarding.

This appears to be the 'transitional fair use' that we've been hearing in action. Some of the comments on Lost Remote speculate that it was merely a bug, either needing a reset of the PVR or caused by an encoding problem. We've previously heard of fast forward problems on 24, another show on Fox. Have any other Comcast HD-DVR users had problems? Let us know in the comments.

by George Hotelling February 9, 2005 in News

Comments

Like the previous case (an inability to fast-forward 24 in HD), whether or not Fox ordered Comcast to force commercials on American Idol viewers is not itself that interesting. What's interesting is that Comcast's software allows for it at all. I'm not aware of any corresponding "feature" in Tivo's repertoire.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/02/comcast_drm_wei.html

Posted by: Nat at Feb 9, 2005 7:13:36 AM

Here is the way I an my friends feel, any show that does this is off of our list of things to watc, and just to help my self get ready for it I have ordered Dave TV. I have already almost stopped renting DVD because they have started blocking the ability to fast forward through all the stuff and the beginning of the DVD.

Al Hill

Posted by: Al Hill at Feb 9, 2005 7:41:40 AM

As I noted last week, I have had this problem three weeks in a row now for 24 in HD. Again, could not pause, ff, rewind, etc. for this week's episode of 24. I unplugged the box for an hour, did not help. My cable company (Buckeye in Toledo, OH) "sent a signal" to my box, did not help. Customer service rep. had no idea what was causing it, but noted that they had a ton of complaints regarding 24.

I get the same thing as this screen shot, the big universal NO!

Bastards!!!

Posted by: amb34 at Feb 9, 2005 7:43:33 AM

Long live TiVo!

Are you sure you weren't already watching the show "live". That might explain why you couldn't fast-forward!

Posted by: RyFry at Feb 9, 2005 8:02:54 AM

I second Al's comment - the power to change this kind of stuff (if it's actually happening), is to simply choose the programs you view based upon how much they value you as a consumer.

I've never seen American Idol, nor will I, but assuming I did watch it, I'd take it right off my schedule if they were forcing commercials on me.

Power to the people!

Posted by: Cap'n Ken at Feb 9, 2005 8:10:12 AM

Interesting trade off - HD vs. DVR functionality. I watched the superbowl in HD, and can definitely say that I wouldnt trade HD for reliability and control in a million years.

I really think that this is TiVo's opportunity to steal the market back. They need to ensure that whatever restrictions the content providers or government bodies attempt to impose, that the consumer maintains his right to fair use. And limiting DVR functionality (FF / RW, etc.) is simply impeding the consumers right to fair use.

If TiVo is forced into bankruptcy trying to protect the consumers right to fair use, then so be it. Its a risk that it must unequivocally take...

Posted by: New York at Feb 9, 2005 8:12:20 AM

This is it, the war is starting. This is networks stirring the pot to see how much controversy this will cause and if it's worth the load so they can sell the idea to local networks everywhere and have some statistics to claim that the complaint load will be worth the extra advertising dollars. Scream loud and scream long or this will become the norm on everything. Now where did I put that tinfoil hat of mine....

Posted by: Griffon at Feb 9, 2005 8:24:25 AM

Man, I can't imagine watching "American Idol" without being able to fast-forward. It's *unwatchable* if you can't skip the crap (which is about 50% of the show).

Posted by: KJC at Feb 9, 2005 9:13:22 AM

I am considering purchasing a DVR of sorts. I dont know what brand to get, I currently have Dish Network and I know they offer a DVR. Does anyone here know if theirs has that same Fast Forwad block? I watch American Idol and many times I have to record it on my VCR I would quickly give up owning a DVR for convenience if I cant control what I watch. VCR's may still have a fighting chance.

Posted by: Robert at Feb 9, 2005 9:23:53 AM

Wow! What's the point of the DVR then? A marketing gimmick and an extra way to get more money from subscribers!

Posted by: FF at Feb 9, 2005 9:48:04 AM

The dish network PVR is universialy panned, but I haven't heard any issues with it being blocked. Right now it seems that comcast is the only on eprobing market resistance (asusming it's not al ljust a bug with a half baked product).

Posted by: Griffon at Feb 9, 2005 10:04:31 AM

I just read an essay today that could have benefited from this information...

http://www.maisonneuve.org/blog/index.php?itemid=806

Posted by: Sean Erickson at Feb 9, 2005 11:15:02 AM

Just call Comcast and insist they ship a new "working" box. Enough people do that and they'll get the picture.

Also report them to the consumer protection department of your State if they refuse. A little pressure never hear anyone

Posted by: Dan at Feb 9, 2005 11:52:57 AM

I had the same thing happen on american idol. I recorded it on tivo as well and tivo worked just fine. Comcast(chicago 6412) will not say a word about the loss of dvr function. They have told me that I'm the only one that had this problem. It has not happened again but the fact that they can do it opens a ugly future. I think I should buy a ati wonder card before the flags start killing dvr!

Posted by: Brian Pelecky at Feb 9, 2005 12:00:49 PM

So is it a software glitch?
or is it intentional?

Or is it a little bit of both? Hmm..

Regardless. this sucks.

Posted by: PVRFF at Feb 9, 2005 12:07:42 PM

Just for those keeping track, Windows MCE 2K5 doesn't have this problem yet.
Seems like Microsoft hasn't jumped on this bandwagon, yet. Are there any other HD DVRs out there other that TIVO, MCE, and Comcast?

OpenJar - Technology News
http://openjar.blogspot.com

Posted by: Frank at Feb 9, 2005 12:15:05 PM

I didn't have this problem while watching last night's recorded HD broadcast of 'American Idol'. Although I didn't try fast forwarding. I used skip.

Posted by: Grant at Feb 9, 2005 2:46:54 PM

i bet they are market testing this out on random boxes. just like amazon does with giving different users different prices just to see how people reacted. if you see this happening to you BITCH AND MOAN! CALL COMCAST RIGHT NOW!

can't let them set this precident...

Posted by: joe at Feb 9, 2005 3:30:40 PM

Dan - these are all working boxes. The problem is not the hardware - that I promise you.

This happened to me with 24 last week (not this week) and AI last week as well (not this week).

Also, you can't compare this to TiVo. TiVo records on the Non-HD FOX channel totally different. If FOX-HD is doing something to prevent DVR features, rest assured TiVo HD Cablecard (or whatever) will be limited as well.

And, um...this sucks.

Posted by: Bryan at Feb 9, 2005 4:00:46 PM

No problems at all w/ fast-forwarding or skipping on my Comcast box here in San Francisco (for 24 or American Idol or any other show).

Must be buggy boxes that are out there?

Posted by: Andrew at Feb 9, 2005 7:57:20 PM

How ironic of a show choice, given that American Idol itself has been going out of their way to develop new integration of commercials right into the product. How many times per show do they mention the Ford Focus, or AT&T text messaging? If there were one show were I would expect such mandatory commercials to NOT happen, it would have been this one. I'm getting commercials whenever Ryan Seacrest opens his mouth.

Posted by: Duane at Feb 10, 2005 7:31:28 AM

I saw this happen once back in December while attempting to record one of the Music Choice (or DMX, whatever Comcast is using these days) channels. I assumed it was some sort of block put on by Comcast, but after changing the channel I could no longer reproduce the behavior.

Posted by: Clay Keskeys at Feb 10, 2005 10:12:39 AM

Bryan's comment:

If FOX-HD is doing something to prevent DVR features, rest assured TiVo HD Cablecard (or whatever) will be limited as well.

is rather daft. There's no DVR-breaking magic in the HD stream, and there's no technical reason why Comcast can't apply this same technique to non-HD content. For this feature to work, Comcast and Fox have to be in bed together, and there's no basis to allege that current or future Tivos will replicate the same bullshit. Even the broadcast flag won't disable fast-forwarding.

And again, people who think this is a case of buggy software are missing the point. There's zero chance that any software defect could draw the crossed-circle glyph on the screen while preventing fast-forwarding. It may or may not be a bug that apparently some-not-all Comcast DVRs apply this restriction to any given program, but the existence of the FF-disabling feature is not an accident. That's just not how software breaks.

Posted by: Nat at Feb 10, 2005 11:45:45 AM

yes this blocking is a problem but not as large a problem as people watching asinine shows like AI. jeez.

Posted by: jon doe #3 at Feb 10, 2005 12:00:00 PM

Actually Nat, I disagree. You have no idea what the brodcast flag will do when it's actually implemented. There's a definate possibility that it could disable some DVR features.

Posted by: Josh at Feb 10, 2005 4:01:53 PM

Josh, the broadcast flag isn't a technical measure, it's a legal measure. If an HD stream could force a DVR to behave in certain ways, the MPAA wouldn't need a law at all. So the stream just tells the DVR "flag yes" or "flag no" and the consequences are all implemented in software in the DVR.

The law on the books does not ban fast-forwarding (except insofar as broadcasters can potentially use it to prevent a show from being recorded to disk at all, which does not describe this case). A new law to ban fast-forwarding has to my knowledge never been proposed by anyone, even crazy former executive Jamie Kellner.

But my point in this case is that the selective prevention of fast-forwarding displayed by Comcast is likely to be a contractual arrangement between Comcast and one or more networks. The existence of the feature is not a software glitch, because the visual display isn't an accident, and it's not a broadcast flag issue, since the broadcast flag isn't even present yet.

Posted by: Nat at Feb 11, 2005 9:44:17 AM

I have been having this problem over the past 2 weeks now with my DVR service from Comcast Cable in Philadelphia, Pa.

Since last week: ER, 24, and Law & Order:SVU have not been letting me fastforward when I go to watch them the next day when I get home from work. When I try to fastforward the program starts going forward then automatically prompts me if I want to save or delete the program. Once I am prompted, I am forced to watch the program again from the begining without being able to fastforward or resume from a previous point. Its very frustrating and if it still continues after they switch out my DVR box I will cancel my DVR service and either get TIVO or just go back to using my VCR again.

Posted by: Chris at Feb 16, 2005 10:37:21 AM

Update for the abover post. I just got off the phone with the Philadelphia, Pa. office and was told the DVR fast forward problem is a software issue and that it should be fixed by 2/24. So we'll see what happens in the next 8 days.

Posted by: Chris at Feb 16, 2005 12:27:41 PM

Yep, the beginning of the end of DVR. That is of course, unless they start selling units that don't require a subscription and aren't crippled by the broadcast flag.

Posted by: Mike Steinbaugh at Feb 16, 2005 7:20:30 PM

My girlfriend was trying to record general hospital on ABC with brighthouse and she got the same "No" symbol. And this is on a non-HD box =\

Posted by: Cyde at Feb 16, 2005 7:57:33 PM

Nat: Sure there is a chance that a software glitch could cause the "No" glyph to appear. What if the glitch is that the DVR thinks it's showing a live program?

Posted by: Steve at Feb 17, 2005 4:00:38 AM

On a related note, the Time Warner Scientific American Explorer 8000 PVR box has some interested ff/rew functionality. First, it's not possible to immediately ff/rew at full speed - you have to press the button for slow ff, wait a moment, press it again for medium, wait a moment, then press it again for full speed. The _only_ reason they could have designed it this way is to try and placate the media companies. 99% of the time, the consumer wants max ff speed to skip commercials (and no, there isn't any skip 30 sec. feature like on a real TiVo).

Second, there used to be an undocumented 'skip 15 minutes forward' feature: when you were fast forwarding, you could press 'day forward' to jump to the next 15 minute block of the show. Since the ff/rew mechanism does not offer absolute positioning (no thumb you can grab and place exactly where you want on the time bar) that was the only way to reasonably get to say the last 15 minutes of something you had already watched.

That feature was removed in a software update several months ago. Again, the only reason this could have happened is the cable company is trying to appease the TV companies. They can say, "hey don't worry - this thing works exactly as poorly as a regular vcr!"

Posted by: Phil Hollenback at Feb 17, 2005 5:35:11 AM

I did watch the last episode of american idol on their hd feed in the LA area and I have to report there were no problems. coincidentally, a tech was at my place the other day, installing a new motorola 6412 after my old one died (tell me about it), and he didn't know about such issues either.

now I am the first to curse at comcast for shipping a dvr with such a loud hard disc and terrible operating system. the thing is littered with bugs and the absence of season passes is inexcusable. but I wonder if this isn't some kind of glitch again. after all, what't the purpose of blocking such a feature only in some markets?

Posted by: c at Feb 17, 2005 6:16:34 AM

This is a software bug. I had the same problem watching a recorded episode of America's Test Kitchen on PBS. I can't see why PBS would block fast forward since they do not have any commercials. I had the same thing happen with a recording of Carnivale on HBO. HBO has no commercials. The motorola 6412 is very buggy. Usually if I turn off my dvr and try again it ends up working. I don't unplug it, I just turn the power off.

Posted by: Patrick at Feb 17, 2005 6:52:16 AM

Maybe this explains why my HD-recording of 24 was messed up. I could fast forward fine, however my TimeWarner DVR split the recording in 10 (!) different segments, varied in length between 1 minute and 20.

Posted by: Adam at Feb 17, 2005 9:21:55 AM

That's why you should ditch your Tivo and get MythTv (LINUX based PVR)

www.mythtv.org.

Posted by: Aquamike at Feb 17, 2005 9:31:47 AM

Wow, um, I guess you aren't very up on things around here. Mind telling me what the underlying OS of TiVo is again?

Andrew

>That's why you should ditch your Tivo and get >MythTv (LINUX based PVR)
>www.mythtv.org.
>Posted by: Aquamike at February 17, 2005 09:31 AM

Posted by: Andrew at Feb 17, 2005 9:57:17 AM

What is the model of the Motorola (?) box that is giving you guys problems? I think there is more than one.

Posted by: Pop Trot at Feb 17, 2005 10:06:41 AM

I don't remember seeing this asked in any of the previous comments, but...

Were the shows in question recorded off the HD feed or the normal broadcast feed? I would imagine that the HD feed, which is sent digitally, could carry more information with the signal - like a flag to deactivate the DVR's fast-forward function - while the normal broadcast feed is still sent, for all intents and purposes, as an analog pass-through, even on digital boxes.

Posted by: M-D November at Feb 17, 2005 10:41:21 AM

I have comcast's HD PVR, don't know the model number. I got the same thing on an american idol ep. I actually recorded last tuesday and wednesday and went to watch them both later wednesday night. the tuesday one wouldn't allow FF, the wed would. I haven't had it on 24, but i don't tape delay that one much. I got the exact same problem though, just the NO symbol in the picture. However this week? no problems.

Posted by: bob tualitan at Feb 17, 2005 11:02:07 AM

sorry for the double post. additional info: i recorded the HD feed, turning it on/off/etc didn't help, and i'm in chicago.

Posted by: bob tualitan at Feb 17, 2005 11:09:50 AM

No issues here. I watched the show with my boyfriend and we skipped through all the commercials. We didn't however record in HD so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Posted by: matt at Feb 17, 2005 11:10:12 AM

'disabled PVR' equals 'cancel your cable'

Posted by: hibiscusroto at Feb 17, 2005 12:44:27 PM

Motorola 6412

Posted by: Bryan at Feb 17, 2005 5:15:58 PM

Status alert: Chicago, IL: No worries. Both shows work fine.

And that Constantine is a cutey!

Posted by: Santino Says Feed Me at Feb 17, 2005 5:16:14 PM

Actually, I've experienced something similar yet different.

I have a Moxie box from digeo http://www.digeo.com.

With the Moxie, there are 3 levels of fast-forwarding: fast, faster, fastest. BBC-America has made it so that you can't super-fast forward it. You can only fast-forward. When you try to make it go faster it says "function not available on this channel" But I'm ok with it as long as I can fast-forward a little ... besides I can't miss Trailer Park Boys!

Posted by: xoe at Feb 17, 2005 6:44:52 PM

I live in Michigan, and while I don't watch any of these shows, I can tell you that I do get this exact same described response if I try to rewind or pause any of the Music Choice channels that my local comcast offers. So I think this is an obvious sign that the ability to disable functions on some channels/shows does exist.

Posted by: Rex Roof at Feb 18, 2005 5:20:45 PM

>That's why you should ditch your Tivo and get >MythTv (LINUX based PVR)
>www.mythtv.org.
>Posted by: Aquamike at February 17, 2005 09:31 AM

That made sense, in a discussion that is distinctly about non-TiVo DVRs, you suggested dumping TiVo. Way to read before spamming!

Oh, and BTW, the TiVo's OS *is* Linux, genius.

Posted by: Kevin Schumacher at Feb 18, 2005 10:15:14 PM

I'm in Chicago and have the dual-channel DVR, but I don't have HD. I regularly record and watch 24 with the DVR, never had a problem with FF.

However, I stumbled across a site for commercial advertisers which claimed there was probably an "ethics" issue with Comcast selling ads and then providing consumers with a way to circumvent them.

Posted by: SVA at Feb 26, 2005 9:56:07 AM

I am an ex Dish customer in the Denver Metro. I just got set up with Comcast Dual Tuner DVRs (Motorola 6412's).

I recorded both American Idol and 24 last night on two different DVRs and was able to fast forward through both shows with no problems.

Posted by: Trent at Mar 1, 2005 11:56:21 AM

This is a documented bug in the PVR hardware. There are no tags in the signal, there are no plans to force you to watch commercials. THIS IS A BUG.

SA has a fix for this, so if you have a box that has this, request one with updated firmware or an update.

Posted by: Shawn U at Mar 4, 2005 11:43:22 AM

i've had the same problem with the non HD PVR from time warner. i've been unable to fast forward & rewind for the last few episodes of apprentice, and it's VERY annoying.

Posted by: anon at Mar 6, 2005 9:51:59 AM

I work for one of the large cable companies supplying DVR boxes from Motorola and I've heard around the office that there are some known software bugs they're currently trying to get fixed, including one that affects fast-fowarding.

Posted by: Bryan at Mar 7, 2005 3:36:06 PM

i use Dish Network's PVR, i record the Idol show to watch later- the past 2 weeks the show simply freezes after the first 10-15 mins and then the whole channel (fox) doesnt work for the rest of the night. whats weird is that it simultanioulsy freezes on a tv in another room thats not connected to a PVR and isnt even on. all the other channels work fine though...
(i live in the SF bay Area)

Posted by: Oleg at Mar 23, 2005 4:04:40 PM

I can fast forward HD 24 on my Adelphia Moxie DVR. Works as expected. So it's either a bug, or Comcast-specific.

One of the few times I'm glad to be on Adelphia. :-P

Posted by: Eric at Jun 20, 2005 9:17:27 AM

Hey it happen to me tonight. I recorded american idol and left to the movies and when I return to watch the Idols I could not fast forward, rewind or pause the show. I was very upset. I called comcast and they knew nothing of it, in fact they said I was the first to make a complain. Yesterday I also recorded american idol,but was able to watch rewind and fast forward. This happen tp anyone else?

Posted by: Nikki at Feb 22, 2006 8:09:44 PM

Join the FOX BOYCOTT. I'll be DARNED if i'll allow control of my DVR features that I PAY FOR! www.inghamfamily.com

Posted by: inghamb at Apr 4, 2006 8:19:37 PM

I noticed this on Fox during Family Guy (Sunday). Also, last night, G4 was blocking features during ST:TNG.

-Banjk

Posted by: banjk at May 9, 2006 7:10:53 AM

We have problems FF and REW on many Fox shows (Amer. Idol, Dance, Hell's Kitchen mostly). When I called Comcast tech support, he had me "reset" the cable box. Pure BS. Still a problem.

Posted by: GGreen at Jul 6, 2006 6:54:14 PM

well, it would be stupid for any show especially advertisers to block fast forward of dvrs, since IT IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THEM IN YEARS.

Fast forwarding forces people to SIT THERE and watch the screen so they don't pass up the show.

If they didn't have the feature to fast forward, such as watching it live, they would do what everyone normally does anyways: walk away to use the bathroom, or change the station, or get a snack.

ofcourse, yo ucan't chnage the station on a dvr and have it still play so that is out, but its certainly nto out for me to get up and walk out of the room for potty break.

Companies are retarded and stupid if this is actually going on or even in the works.

The one advertisers who make slower less fps ads are smart, that why you can still see their ads in fast forward.

Posted by: theworldisstupid at Mar 27, 2007 1:45:16 PM

I will cancel Comcast cable and go back to HD and Digital over the air.

Not one more dime they are getting from me. F@#king Pr@#cks!

Posted by: Terry at Apr 3, 2007 7:29:09 PM

I have Comcast and have had no problem with either 24 or American Idol. We watch 24, American Idol, and Prison Break all in less than two hours on HD DVR.

Posted by: John Williams at Apr 13, 2007 7:36:04 AM

I don't have problems fast-forwarding, but I do have other problems recording on FOX HD. Instead of recording a show in one whole piece, it breaks it up into many shorter random-length segments. For longer shows such as a NASCAR race, I've had teh show in up to 20 pieces in my PVR. I lose some of the show at each segment break. This does not happen on any other channel but FOX HD. I am with Rogers Cable in Canada.

Posted by: kyle at Apr 25, 2007 7:14:47 PM

Folks, this is Fox.

We started experiencing this issue in Austin about four months ago and the cable guy told us that Fox was doing this. We were like, "Ok, you're a quack"

But it's true---try to record anything on Fox during primetime and it comes in several pieces. Additionally, you can't RR/FF/Pause at any point during primetime.

My buddy figured out a way to route the signal to his computer and the computer can control the functions that Fox has stripped. It involves recording things to his harddrive but hardly a viable solution for 98% of the rest of us.

Everyone---what can we do? We're smart enough to find a way to go around Fox...has to be a way that works for all of us.

Posted by: Yep at Jan 3, 2008 6:33:13 PM

It's not Fox, it's Comcast.

They're also blocking FF during the ads they run. IE - anything promoting on OnDemand ..., can't FF.

Posted by: yo at Mar 4, 2008 6:05:02 PM

This post comes up top of the list when searching in Google. Comcast seems to be blocking functionality on my DVR as well. New episodes of Iron Chef wouldn't allow me to rewind or record and new episodes of House don't even have the 'Series recording' options.

Posted by: Adam at Sep 30, 2008 6:08:41 PM

American Idol blocking fast forwards

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