Mac mini - a killer Home Theater PC in the making?

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Mac mini - a killer Home Theater PC in the making?

Mac_mini_back

My first thought after seeing the Mac mini debut today from Apple was that if you combined it with the extractable/hackable Comcast Motorola HD DVR or an EyeTV setup, you'd have a tiny, quiet, powerful little box you could slip into any home theater system for only $499, and run all your movies, music, and photos from it.

OS X is infinitely scriptable and hackable as well, so this new tiny quiet box just might be able to start something for HTPC enthusiasts.

by Matt Haughey January 11, 2005 in News

Comments

Looks interesting. What's a good way for those of us who dont' have HD (yet) to convert that DVI/VGA output into something we can use on a regular TV?

Posted by: davedeal at Jan 11, 2005 12:14:27 PM

Is this thing capable of driving, say a 40 inch LCD TV?

Posted by: JJV at Jan 11, 2005 12:39:07 PM

You can order it with a Bluetooth option, so some company could definatly make a bluetooth-operated remote control for movies and music (or you can use sailing clicker and your cell phone).

davedeal: you can hook a regular TV up to it, you just need an adapter that Apple sells.

Posted by: David Ely at Jan 11, 2005 12:41:45 PM

I'm planning on purchasing one for use as a set-top box. I've already adopted BeyondTV and I've been happy with the recordings. The problems I've faced include being able to edit the MPEG2 content and archiving it. Using DropDV to convert the MPEG2 to DV, I can edit and splice it in iMovie. After cutting out the commercials, I can export the video as MPEG4. Given that iPhoto can now take videos, I'm hoping to use iPhoto as a storage medium and hopefully the sharing will allow me to view the video on a remote machine. If not, I can still use a network share for the shows and use the DVI-to-Svideo adapter to output to the television.

The advantage of this approach is that I can also hook the Mac Mini to my receiver and play everything I own via iTunes sharing. Furthermore, the box will be able to play arbitrary media files using Quicktime or VLC. I'll control the set-top unit using VNC.

All things considered, this box is an incredible value for what I want to do with it.

Posted by: Chris at Jan 11, 2005 12:52:20 PM

It does have definite potential as an HTPC. I had been planning to build one this year, but this might be a better way to go. I just tried to price one out but the Apple Store keeps timing out. This is going to be an interesting year, gadget wise.

Posted by: Michael Pate at Jan 11, 2005 1:17:13 PM

Exactly... I think we're going to see a fair amount of resellers preloading this baby with custom software not too far off in the future. Mac mini "TiVos"? Hell, yeah.

Posted by: noah at Jan 11, 2005 1:43:42 PM

I was thinking the same except, best I can tell it has no digital audio out. Kind of rules this out for a htpc no?

Posted by: B.Greenway at Jan 11, 2005 1:49:09 PM

Yeah, the downsides are no digital audio out and the smallish hard drive (I'd prefer to get a 250 or 300Gb beast of storage into there).

Perhaps they could release a "Mini AV" in a few months with those options, just for this purpose.

Posted by: Matt Haughey at Jan 11, 2005 1:59:57 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get video into it for recording? Are there coax to usb or firewire cables out there or something?

Posted by: J Biggs at Jan 11, 2005 2:01:34 PM

I am sure there's a solution out there that will pipe digital audio out via USB. And you can use firewire for video in (as evidenced on the front page of this blog). Otherwise, you can also get a USB video adaptor for video in. I am sure someone makes one. hmm, I smell a market opportunity for someone to make a VIVO dongle for the Mac mini for HTPC enthusiasts.

Posted by: Chris Kelly at Jan 11, 2005 2:44:53 PM

The Plextor PX-TV402U for the Mac is USB 2.0 capable and comes with "the award winning Elgato EyeTV software." It could get a bit expensive but would certainly be a lot easier to assemble than a MythTV.

Posted by: Michael Pate at Jan 11, 2005 2:52:05 PM

It looks like a nice box, even if you were to use it for a desktop. Add a superdrive and you've got DVD burning.

Here's my question though - Everything I've read said just use your keyboard/mouse and you are good to go. Obviously they are talking USB keyboard and mouse, and if I plug in a USB keyboard and mouse to this thing, I've got NO USB PORTS LEFT.

I realize that Apple is 'The Firewire Company', but no USB ports left? That would be a deal breaker for me.....unfortunately.

Or am I reading it wrong?

Posted by: Mike Strock at Jan 11, 2005 3:11:21 PM

You can get a D-Link Dub-H4 4 Port USB 2.0 Hub for $11.00 after rebate right now.

Posted by: Michael Pate at Jan 11, 2005 3:29:51 PM

But I guess what I'm trying to say, isn't that a bit shortsighted of Apple to only provide two USB ports when there aren't ports (other than USB) for a keyboard and mouse? Or have I been living in a PC centric world too long?

Posted by: Mike Strock at Jan 11, 2005 3:44:36 PM

The standard Mac keyboard has two usb ports. One is for the mouse. So If you buy the apple keyboard and mouse, you still have two free usb ports.

Not to mention the apple bluetooth keyboard and mouse, would still leave you with two free.

Posted by: Airport at Jan 11, 2005 4:22:35 PM

I'm thinking Apple really isn't targeting this to be a 'media center' appliance.
The video out is DVI, composite or S-video only (and even S-Vid/Composite is with an adapter). I'm not totally up on ATI's video output hardware, but on consumer ATI video cards, the next chipset up, the 9600, does support HD output on a component dongle that plugs into the DVI port. With Apple's big push for HD in the coming year, that seems like a major missed opportunity.
The lack of digital audio out is pretty telling as well.
I know Jobs is very much against Apple choosing to make a media center device, but would it be asking to much to allow consumers to make that decision?

Posted by: Chris Weiss at Jan 11, 2005 4:27:25 PM

>> I am sure there's a solution out there that will pipe digital audio out via USB.<<

What kind of latency is involved with a USB device that would perform this task? Even a small amount of latency can render watching DVD's and other video an exercise in frustration.

The Apple Mini is good for surfing the web, reading email and that's about it. I can't image that iLife 05 is going to run worth a damn on this thing. It's a low cost, basic, starter computer.

Posted by: Adam at Jan 11, 2005 5:23:31 PM

Help me out! I have BeyondTV 3 on a PC "server" on my home network, now I want to extend that to the bedroom TV. Apple has made it interesting. I have a G4 Powerbook and have tested this functionality out in the bedroom, works pretty smooth. I'm on the fence, looking for your gut responses.

PC Way:
Asus Pundit-R case
P4 1.8GHz Celeron
512MB RAM
Western Digital 40GB
DVD/CD drive
Win XP Home
BTV Link
Firefly remote
Around $600

Mac Way:
Mac Mini (basic)
Gyration wireless keyboard/mouse setup
MPlayer OSX 2 software
Around $600

Posted by: Jason at Jan 11, 2005 7:24:03 PM

I can't believe the people complaining about the number of USB ports.

USB hubs are dirt cheap, people. Sheesh. You might as well complain about the lack of keyboard, mouse, and video monitor while you are at it.

"I know Jobs is very much against Apple choosing to make a media center device, but would it be asking to much to allow consumers to make that decision?"

I keep hearing people say this, but based on what evidence? Jobs isn't stupid enough to let his (alleged) bias against TV keep him from entering a market if he thought it would make lots of money for Apple.

This device was aimed at the very bottom, entry level market. By definition this rules out media center type features. There's no reason why media center software can't be used, however, with existing, higher end Macs, or with some as yet unreleased future Mac.

Posted by: David Deane at Jan 11, 2005 11:38:25 PM

How to get the Mac mini to output AC-3, DTS (ie. 5.1) audio?

The M-Audio Transit:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html

Hooks up via USB and provides TOSlink optical output and a solution to help complete the Mac mini HTPC.

Posted by: devotion at Jan 12, 2005 2:00:32 AM

The form factor is excellent and, like the iPod, it's a Trojan Horse. I'll be opting for the SuperDrive option as a second 'entertainment hub' Mac.

Posted by: John Hood at Jan 12, 2005 3:55:01 AM

Err, is the sound straight 2 channel stereo, or am I mising the digitial audo connection? Checked the web site, no im not...

Posted by: Gianni Cataldo at Jan 12, 2005 8:14:18 AM

One problem could be the G4 won't really be able to keep up with HD content. A G5 is generally required. The G4 will be struggling, big time, and your HD content will be left in the dust. For and SD media server, it'd most likely work out fine. The VGA adapter comes with this unit, but the VGA to S-video does not. There are adaptors for everything else, including the digital out (for those who have to have it). Slap a superlarge hard drive against it, connected via USB or firewire and you're reasonably set.

Is there anyone other than EyeTV making a decent server platform for it yet?

Posted by: siglo at Jan 12, 2005 8:53:26 AM

jason: or you could spend 99 bucks and get a hauppauge mediamvp and run a network cable to the TV area.

*shrug*

rampy

Posted by: rampy at Jan 12, 2005 9:23:57 AM

I looked at it and drooled right away. I am a hardcore windows/PC platform guy (3 PCs - 2 3.2 GHz and 1 1Ghz, 1 1.8 GHz compaq laptop) and the Mac mini motivated me to switch. I wanted it exactly for using it as a Set top (DVD Player/DVD Recorder) for playing my DVDs and recording stuff off my camcorder and digital camera.
The lack of digital audio out was evident immediately and a call to Apple representative was utterly useless. Googling led me to USB based audio solutions, so I decided to go for it.
I ordered one yesterday from Apple Store. Took me 20-30 mins to get my order through. Let's see if I acutally get it in time.

One of the above post has me concerned though. Is the G4 1.45 GHz not powerful enough to be able to capture video thru firewire and edit and burn on a dvd? What kind of editing capabilities would I be able to get out of the mac mini?

Thx.

Posted by: Chetan at Jan 12, 2005 1:07:08 PM

Chetan, a G4 1.45GHz should be sufficient to record HD. However, it's probably not powerful enough to play back a full blown 1080i HD stream. Read the EFF's review of ElGato's EyeTV 500 for more info: http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/eyetv500.php

It should also be powerful enough to edit and burn DVDs--although, you'll have to pay a premium for the SuperDrive.

I would buy one of these in an instant if it were actually powerful enough to play HDTV streams. A digital audio output would have been nice, but I suppose that's not too big of a deal if you can't playback an HD stream in the first place.

I've seen someone suggest using the Mac mini as a MythTV frontend with the backend running on a Linux box. I'm contemplating building a HDTV MythTV box--if only PC case manufacturers could design an aesthetically pleasing case that doesn't cost a small fortune.

Posted by: napdaddy at Jan 12, 2005 3:55:45 PM

Chetan,

You should be covered re iLife '05 and/or Final Cut Express HD. My LCD iMac (800 MHz PowerPC G4) still more than meets my cross platform publishing needs. And welcome to the Mac community :)

Posted by: John Hood at Jan 12, 2005 4:00:03 PM

Jason -
I definitely vote for the Mac - it's just so much more attractive than the Asus Pundit-R case! Your setup sounds like mine, and I'm wondering about your choice of MPlayer. What does that give you that Quicktime doesn't?

Posted by: Margaret at Jan 12, 2005 4:09:15 PM

I'll wait until later this year, or early next year. This can only get better. Pippen, it would seem, has gained a new life.

My first impression was the same as Matt's. That thing looks too good not to sit near a Samsung DLP RPT. But the new set-top box that Shuttle is coming out with will offer a lot more meat and potatoes, and have enough of the garnishing to be both palatable and nourishing. And without the comprimises. Of course, at a significant cost, likely.

Posted by: Dan Isaacs at Jan 12, 2005 5:57:14 PM

Hello everyone,

I have been waiting for Apple to release something we can use next to our Hi Fi 3-2-1 Bose unit on our fireplace hearth mantle.

The mini mac looks like it is the one.

Quick question...

Does anyone know if the DVI on the Mac mini will connect to our paticular 42" HDTV http://www.norcent.net/main/product_detail.asp?prodID=22.

The HDTV has a DVI, but I am confused if it will work with the Mac mini DVI.

I was also concerned that the Mac mini would not be able to display any images as the screen is so large. For example I would 100% hook iPhoto and have it as an on screen saver mode to display all our family photos - can this be done?

Posted by: Brent at Jan 12, 2005 8:01:16 PM

I think the mini can PUSH out HD content, but it is probably close to the mark saying that the g4 might have trouble taking IN an HDTV stream. Well, maybe not if an EyeTV HD is converting it and piping it into firewire to the mini, and the new QuickTime Seven codecs are used. A SuperDrive Mini with sufficient RAM and Tiger might work. But just getting the RAM in there, or the SuperDrive Option, or WiFi and bluetooth, and you are going into another price range.

See also thread at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104673

Posted by: Bud Landry at Jan 12, 2005 10:20:04 PM

Re "I can't believe the people complaining about the number of USB ports."

To make it work as a Home Theatre PC

1) External Hard Drive
2) External Sound Card
3) External TV Card

which will require a hub to make everything CONNECT - with no guarantee that it'll work plus the need for external power supplies as the mini-mac won't have the power to run them.

You'll end up with a mess of cables

And that's assuming you take the Apple options for bluetooth keyboard & wireless connectivity rather than cheaper after-market products - or the stuff you already have.

Posted by: alan at Jan 13, 2005 3:11:13 AM

Re "I can't believe the people complaining about the number of USB ports."

To make it work as a Home Theatre PC

1) External Hard Drive
2) External Sound Card
3) External TV Card

which will require a hub to make everything CONNECT - with no guarantee that it'll work plus the need for external power supplies as the mini-mac won't have the power to run them.

You'll end up with a mess of cables

And that's assuming you take the Apple options for bluetooth keyboard & wireless connectivity rather than cheaper after-market products - or the stuff you already have.

Posted by: alan at Jan 13, 2005 3:12:21 AM

Quick correction, although I agree there's a lot of boxes needed to turn this into a media center PC...
The external hard drive should be firewire, not USB. At least, that's the Mac Way. No hub needed. :)

Posted by: Ventrego at Jan 13, 2005 5:44:12 AM

Another concern would be noise. The apple tech page says it "purrs along at a whisper-quiet sound level", but I would be interested to see someone review this first hand.

Posted by: Zelda Zunk at Jan 13, 2005 8:55:35 AM

HDDs are cheap. Can't you just ditch the 40 gig it comes with (maybe put it in your PS2 and use HD Advance) and slap in a 300 gig drive? Then you don't need an external. Or just use a networked drive on another computer?

Posted by: MrBlank at Jan 13, 2005 9:42:04 AM

Surely all that is required with the mac mini is:

1 x Firewire Elgato Eye-TV 400,410 etc. which has a remote control
1 x Bigger Hard drive (internal)
1 x Bluetooth keyboard & mouse

If it is as quiet as my powerbook then there will be very little noise.

Posted by: degreecy at Jan 13, 2005 9:48:50 AM

"The external hard drive should be firewire, not USB. At least, that's the Mac Way. No hub needed. :)"

Ditto for the sound: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/firewave/

Anybody know how big this thing is? Or what kind of audio outputs it has? I couldn't find technical specs on griffin's site.

Posted by: Rory at Jan 13, 2005 10:33:24 AM

The Mac Mini (with some beautiful UI from the open source community) has the potential to be a great HTPC but not yet. You need standard bluetooth/wifi, more disk space, but most importantly, a G5 CPU. As stated the G4 won't be able to keep up with HDTV recording.

If Apple can crank out such a unit with built-in Wifi, bluetooth, HDTV recording, 80+ GB, and a G5 for $500 they've got a hot seller. Of course Apple will NOT do this but the open source community will. Besides, HDTV is here to stay and is not getting any more intense. The Mac Mini will invariably be a G5 with 120+ GB and 512 MB RAM within two years.

Posted by: Mike at Jan 13, 2005 10:41:42 AM

The HD is a notebook 2.5" HD, so adding a Firewire drive is much cheaper.

Adding a powered USB hub may not be too bad, as you can hide the hub out the way, and there will only be 1 USB cable running to the Mac itself. I think there is a Macally hub that does both USB and Firewire, to reduce the number of extra pieces.

The Mini should be pretty quiet. Its internals are basically lifted from the iBook, which is a VERY quiet machine (I have one.) I almost can't hear it when I'm using it, great for DVD's (as opposed to my XBox!!)

Posted by: madmaxmedia at Jan 13, 2005 1:10:31 PM

on a slightly different note, why wouldn't Apple manufacture a sister small box to the Mac Mini -- one that is a TV tuner/Cable box/remote control unit -- Mac Mini TV.

Then consumers could purchase a great LCD monitor that plubs into the Mac Mini TV and Mac Mini. Perfect for den - bedroom - kitchen. One screen two small units and limited space requirements.

Posted by: SteveB at Jan 13, 2005 2:30:46 PM

I think the Mini would make a great TV/HDTV client, but a dedicated AMD-based Linux or Windows rack would be a better work horse for scheduled recording.

I say this considering the cost-effective horsepower available from AMD, availability of cards and selection of software.

AND, I am more than willing to move the Mac Mini from room to room as I might need it or want it.

Posted by: PlatformAgnostic at Jan 13, 2005 7:10:57 PM

I've read numerous comments/reviews on the Mac Mini. None has answered questions about my needs. I already have a powerful WinTel Laptop from work so I'm looking for a Mac for Fun/Personal Stuff. I'd like to:

1) Manage my MP3's
2) Organize Photos
3) Create/Record/Mix music in my simple home studio
I already have a USB Audio Capture device (Edirol)
4) Create Simple DVDs from Family and Friends photos
5) Organize & Digitize the Family videos
I already have a Canon DV camera

To me this sounds like I'm an Express User (Final Cut Express, Logic Express (w/some Garage Band Loops)). From what I understand, everything I need can be handled in iLife and the Express packages.

Can the MAC Mini run these packages sufficiently?
How much RAM do I need?

Some other info that might help your recommendations
1) Hard Drive Space isn't an issue since I have a 300GB USB drive I use to backup my work PC (and store MP3s)
2) My family has collected numerous Keyboards, Monitors and Mice as I've kept my parents and siblings up to date
3) I'm not that concerned about this being bumped up in the next year since I'll probably get the new one and give this one to my parents or use it in my entertainment system to act as an Ipod substitute.

Sorry this is so long, but I'd really like some advice from some experienced users. To me this seems like a system that's targeted for me. Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: Mac Switcher KZ at Jan 13, 2005 8:27:50 PM

To PlatformAgnostic:

Make sure you have at least 512MB. I own two G4 macs with 512Mb each. A dual 867MHz tower and a 1GHz laptop. They are very responsive machines for the tasks you listed. (And a joy to use compared to my Dell laptop at work...) I use Griffin iMic for USB audio capture. I also have a Midi cable that lets me use Garageband w my Roland digital piano.

Posted by: David Woodbury at Jan 13, 2005 8:51:27 PM

Also to PlatformAgnostic

Everything you have listed is part of the iLife '05 suite of programs. You'll have absolutely no problem in running iLife '05 on the Mac mini. The eMac has the same 1.25 GHz processor. Definitely go for the 512 of RAM or check the prices for installing the 1GB (seems a bit steep at Apple prices, but I haven't actually looked myself). You won't be disappointed (until the G5 version comes out) :-)

Posted by: Numa at Jan 13, 2005 9:29:47 PM

I'm sorry, but I think this whole idea is ridiculous! "the mini mac would be a great htpc...if it only had digital audio out, a bigger hard drive, more usb ports, a faster processor, a video capture device..." if it really was such a great option you wouldn't have to add all of those things on! don't get me wrong, i think it's a pretty slick little thing, but it's just not made to do this. you can contrive pretty much any system into the ideal htpc if you put enough money into it and this is no different.

Posted by: silentfool at Jan 13, 2005 10:20:16 PM

I've seen a the mini hooked up to a large Sharp LCD TV via DVI. It was absolutely stunning! You don't need keyboard and mouse. You can share the keyboard and track pad on your laptop. See http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ for more info. Make sure you order one with at least 512MB and the wifi card. Playing back 1080i content recorded via the EyeTV 500 was not a problem. No skipping frame!

Posted by: dinotang at Jan 13, 2005 10:29:57 PM

I'm excited about the Mac Mini mainly because I haven't had a Mac since the old 512k (2) in the mid 80's. The keyboard/mouse isn't a big deal, although I have a Logtech wireless set that should work on a Mac. My main concern is the expense of a moniter. I have a Mag LCD 17" TV/moniter that is new and it would be a "deal breaker" if I couldn't use it with the Mini. Any ideas/help would be appreciated. Please keep any answers within the K.I.S.S. theory, Im the last "S".

Posted by: Mike Innac at Jan 13, 2005 10:54:32 PM

to Mac Switcher KZ:

The Mac Mini is absolutely powerful enough for everything you list there. If you've never cut video before and you're just cutting for personal use, Final Cut Express is probably a bit much for you... Start out with the bundled iMovie and iDVD, and see if they fit your needs. It's more than enough for most people. Not sure how advanced you are music-wise either (and GarageBand may be enough for you on that front), but the last time I ran Logic, it was purring happily on a much slower G4 than the Mini. As others have said, just beef up your RAM to half a gig, and all will be right with the world.

As for HTPC possibilities, it has potential... but not until someone makes a nice set-top friendly GUI wrap-around, and straightens out some compatibility issues. QuickTime doesn't support OGM or MKV wrappers, and forget about WM9 codecs! MPlayer is kinda nice, but also kludgy to say the least (as the XBox Media Center people keep realizing).

In short, I don't know what I'd use it for, but I still want one!!! :p

Posted by: Justin Sevakis at Jan 13, 2005 11:59:21 PM

to Mike Innac:

No problem. That monitor will hook right up to the Mini's DVI port. Apple included an adaptor for all SVGA monitors. Your Logitech keyboard and mouse should work fine too, as long as they're USB and not PS2.

Posted by: Justin Sevakis at Jan 14, 2005 12:04:19 AM

To anyone concerned about the mini's power >

I have a dual 500 mhz G4 tower with 768 mb of Ram and a 32 MB video card. Granted the RAM I have is higher then the mini's, but my processor is much slower and the video card is identical. Here are some of the programs/task that I use/do with this machine:

1) Final Cut Pro (3) editing (including capture and output)
2) iPhoto
3) Photoshop (7), Illustrator (9), and After Effects (4.1)
4) I can also use the rest of the iLife suite, no problem.
5) Watching DVD's
6) Surfing the Web
7) Word processing
8) CD and DVD burning and audio capture (Roxio Toast suite)

As you can see, my Mac may be considered "underpowered" but it is still a very capable and powerful computer.

To the guy who wanted to use a Canon DV camera - shouldn't be a probelm at all. I've used one with my set-up already. Also, if it has pass-through (the camera, not the computer), you should easily be able to transfer/archive old VHS tapes of your family.

- Jim

Posted by: jim harper at Jan 14, 2005 5:32:26 AM

I hate to be a downer, but I don't think we'll see a G5 in the mac mini anytime soon for precisely the same reason we won't see one in the Powerbook: heat. The processor runs too hot to be wedged in such a small case without much cooling.

Posted by: A skeptic at Jan 14, 2005 5:37:20 AM

Except that we will see the PowerBook G5 soon. How about Q2?

Read here:

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050114A7040.html

Posted by: Daniel Burns at Jan 14, 2005 8:33:46 AM

HTPC would have been the killer app for this but Apple laid an egg by not including SPDIF out. What could they possible have been thinking????

Larry

Posted by: Larry at Jan 14, 2005 8:40:10 AM

The power of the mac mini is about equivalent to the high end laptops. This is a very capable machine. Also, keep in mind that for almost all average user purposes, and most advanced ones, any modern PC in general fits the bill. The question is what luxuries do you want to ad on?

I'm very tempted to pick up a few as some extra editing bays at work. It may not render fast, but it'll run just fine.

Side thought: How many of these would you need to build a cheap supercomputer?? =)))

Posted by: BurntCalc at Jan 14, 2005 1:47:47 PM

Eye Home and Eye Tv from elgato do *almost* everything ya need. PVR, access iTunes/iPhoto/Movies from *any* networked Mac, has digital audio in and out, and are around $250 each. Plus I can websurf from the couch then too. I'm just waiting for the IR dongle and it'll replace TIVO for me! Oh, and who else thinks Apple's *asteroid* (of recent lawsuit fame) is gonna be a lot more than just an audio BOB? :-) This is gonna be fun! ordered my mini already...

Posted by: ageek at Jan 14, 2005 2:38:17 PM

I wrote up a little how-to for turning the mac mini into a media center pc...

http://solutionspheres.blogspot.com

I'll update it with info regularly...

Posted by: _victor at Jan 15, 2005 4:47:49 AM

can the mini mac run Pro Tools or any high end audio software?

Posted by: Joseph at Jan 15, 2005 5:47:20 AM

To Platform Agnostic-

Yes, it does sound like the mini might be just right for you. I would second the recommendation of going for 512 MB, but I don't think you have to go beyond that.

I'd start with the free bundled iLife apps- I think they'll be all that you need and you can save the expense of moving up to the Express apps. Your Canon camcorder should work flawlessly with iMovie- I've been using Canons with iMovie for years, starting with a 400 MHz iMac with 128 MB. A 1.25 GHz G4 should handle all this with ease.

iMovie is great fun if you're a creative sort- GarageBand too. Haven't personally used iDVD yet.

Good luck and have fun!

Posted by: pdq at Jan 15, 2005 6:22:35 AM

An EXCELLENT FAQ for the mini can be found here:

http://forums.dealmac.com/read.php?1,2054593

Posted by: pdq at Jan 15, 2005 6:38:55 AM

Thanks to all who have offered advice!!!! It's no longer a matter of if I will order a Mac Mini, but which one and how much RAM.

I should have been a little more clear on my GarageBand/Logic Express needs. I'm looking to be able to record up to 8 tracks simultaneously and play back up to 24. Is the 512MB going to be enough? Do I need to look at 1GB? I could always order the 512MB to get started then upgrade to 1GB when Apple offers it (cheaply) at their stores. Anyone with extensive GarageBand or Logic Express experience, please give me some RAM advice based on the above criteria.

Even though I probably don't need Final Cut Express over iMovie, I have several friends who use Final Cut Pro for their jobs. I'm hoping for a little training.

Thanks again.

Posted by: Mac Switcher KZ at Jan 15, 2005 9:34:11 AM

Another Market or 2

When I saw this unit with the ability to connect to a TV I had flashbacks to my first computers. A Commodore Vic 20, then 64. I know this dates me a little, but this may may just be this decades Vic 20/64. Think about it. All of us have a relative or two who hasn't really gotten into PCs. Give them a sub $500 (sort of) machine where they can use their TV as a monitor. Be a good cousin/kid/grandkid and give them a keyboard and mouse and they're ready to go.

Another place this really apply's is the family support market. Another site mentioned those of us who are FREE Tech Support for our families. My parents/Sisters/Brothers/Grandparents/etc. look at photos (w/minor editing), surf the 'net, do e-mails and would like to make photo albums. Everything they need is in the included iLife. It may not be completely idiot proof, but it's far easier than anything windows can offer with $$$$ added on!!! I think I have my Xmas list done for next year. Hopefully Rev B will be out and I'll be able to pick up Rev A's for a little less.

Posted by: Mac Switcher KZ at Jan 15, 2005 9:48:27 AM

As a professional Home Theater Designer, I can answer anyones hesitations about using this thing as an HTPC. The size makes it right, the SuperDrive availability makes it right, and hiding cables (for hubs) is something that any decent installer can do (it's called VELCRO and careful planning).

The most important point for me, as a designer, is the fact that it's a MAC! No viruses, no crashing, and the lovely OS X interface. Keyspan's Digital Media Remote, along with M-audio's transit, pretty much seals it.

Watch the open-source market for an HTPC front-end (there are a couple out there already, but they're still in the bits'n'pieces stage). As far as storage goes, I've found using an Xserve with a couple Terabytes offers the storage for recording/playing HD, and archiving DVD movies.

Posted by: RuiNer at Jan 15, 2005 10:45:02 AM

Just a though..it looks like for the Mac Mini to integrate digital audio out so it can connect to you HT all you need to do is order the Mac Mini with the Airport Extreme Card and buy the Airport Express seperately so you can use the 3.5mm mini-Audio jack on the AE for optical digital sound directly to your AV Reciever. For now this will only work in iTunes, but I think there's a hack out there somewhere that can stream any audio source to the AE so maybe this would work for audio that originates outside of iTunes.

Also, FireWire (1394) is capable of streaming Audio and Video as one-way or bi-directional depending on the # of pins on the connector (4 or 6). Many AV manufacturers are already using iLink (1394) for the ability to link devices so if you have B&K, Denon, Integra, Pioneer, Onkyo, Sony, or Yamaha reciever you should be able to technically connect to the Mac Mini.

With only one FW 400 port on the Mini though you would probably need a FW hub so you can connect multiple devices to your HT to create an HT Entertainment Network of devices. This WOULD be fun to play with to see what you could do!

Posted by: Mac Daddy at Jan 15, 2005 7:58:17 PM

I have used Mac OS X 10.3 on an iMac Flatpanel (the round base) for a while now. The machine has only 384Mb (100mhz SO-DIMM at that) ram and sports only a 800Mhz G4 and runs Mac OS X fine. All of the iLife apps and Photoshop run surprisingly well. Don't knock a Mac's performance before you use one. Even "older" Macs run newer OS X very well. That can't be said for Wintel machines.

By the way, I also own a Dell 600m 1.4Ghz Pentium M, 512Mb ram, ATI 9000 64Mb Ram, Win Pro machine so I can compare the two machines. Without a doubt the Mac machine is more elegant and intuitive. The iLife applications are amazing for what they do and who they're targeted at. Nothing on a Windows machinge integrates as well with the OS as iLife and Mac OS X does, hands down. I would get a Powerbook if I could afford one.

You'll find that the Mac Mini's performance quite satisfactory and for HTPC, it is a pretty good deal. For those looking at the EyeTV option, they have a usb 2.0 box for regular cable and a Firewire box for HDTV (only for terrestial broadcasts though). I can't confirm but I believe the audio out might be a combo digital/analog out like the Airport Express. Oh and most USB keyobards have an additional USB port for your mouse. Not to mention most "mid-range" LCD's include a usb hub. I'll be getting a Mac mini soon.

Posted by: Q at Jan 15, 2005 9:05:15 PM

I have used Garageband and find it very good for beginners. As far as system specs go, RAM isn't the major issue, it's CPU. If you want to use a lot of the digital instruments, get the 1.42Ghz because both Logic and Garageband are CPU hogs. As a general OS X rule of thumb, you should have at least 256 but 512Mb RAM is reccomended to run OS X without lags. OS X is a RAM hog so I would advise to go with the 512 upgrade and latter install a 1Gig bank. I have heard that the RAM isn't that hard to upgrade in the Mini, just a matter of being delicate when opening up the machine.

Posted by: Q at Jan 15, 2005 9:11:25 PM

One thing that is lacking from the equation is an inexpensive IR-blaster. Until there is a CableCARD compatible EyeTV-like device, you'll need a blaster to change the channel on your digital cable converter. The only Mac IR solution I hear about that is worth a look is IRTrans (http://www.irtrans.com/), but $130 (99 Euros) is just plain extortion. The upside is that it is AppleScript-able.

As for the question about upgrading the Mini, it looks like it may require a special tool/jig to open-up considering the number of latch-tabs. Not a DIY job... and it could void the warranty. Check the small print: Footnote #5 here... http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

Posted by: RocksInMySocks at Jan 15, 2005 9:57:15 PM

The race is on to be the first to build a HTPC out of the Mini Mac. Will you be the first? Let us know.

Posted by: Mike at Jan 16, 2005 12:52:08 AM

I was considering one, even as a small home server it is pretty good. Small, quiet 85W. Leave it on and forget about it.

I have an external USB/Firewire HD if I find HD space a problem.

My Xbox is very noisy especially with the bigger HD I installed, so upgrading the Macs HD could have conseqences too.

What is holding me back at the mo is a) waiting for these discussions to pan out and see how it all works in the cold light of day and b) 10.4 is out probably in March and I dont want to pay however much it is for the upgrade.

Posted by: AndyD at Jan 16, 2005 1:01:48 AM

Does anyone know if this DVI output is DVI-D so that I can hook it up Hi-Res to my HDTV?

Posted by: Samuel at Jan 16, 2005 8:21:25 AM

I was just wondering what benchmark tests the above people used in denouncing the G4's HD recording performance..

Comparing a 1.45 MHz G4 to the performance of say a PC 1.45 MHz processor is a big mistake, as they are two totally different animals..

Also, Panther, 10.3 is a very well written and fast operating system, not to mention one of the most stable and reliable platforms I have ever worked on.. and for deticated HTPC solution, I see it as a prime canidate. There are tons of ways to hack 10.3 to not load unneeded items into memory.. (even the whole GUI if you want)

Lets see some actual HD Recording and Playback benchmarks by a bench firm before people begin making wild accusations about speed problems, audio lag etc.

Those of you new to the mac sector, welcome.. but the old rules do not apply here. =]

Cheers!

Posted by: Dustin at Jan 16, 2005 2:23:15 PM

To Andy D,

The Mac Mini page on Apple.com says that the mini will support displays up to 1920 x 1200 with DVI. See http://www.apple.com/macmini/graphics.html on the sidebar labeled, "Plug In, Turn On, Tune In." So I don't know if it's DVI-D per se, but does the resolution support info answer that question?

HTH,

Joel

PS: FWIW, I _speculate_ that the Mac mini is the first in a series of these little boxes that can daisy chain and add to your home theater setup: digital audio (the rumored "Asteroid" project), eventually video, etc. (It also fits into a typical car dash at this size. Food for thought.) :-)

Posted by: Joel D at Jan 16, 2005 9:13:42 PM

Hi, another question about using the mini as a HTPC/DVD player.
I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi receiver that can accept firewire input. Would I be able to connect the two together, configure the Mac DVD Player to output the audio stream on the firewire interface and let the audio stream be decoded and processed by the receiver.
I guess my real question is, does the Mac DVD player offer the capability to output the audio digitally on the firewire interface?
This would be my first Mac, so I am fairly clueless in what is offered by the system.
BTW, gread thread. Thx for everyone who is contributing to it.

Posted by: Chetan at Jan 17, 2005 11:11:06 AM

Did anyone here ever read this?
http://macteens.com/more.php?id=410_0_1_0_C

I've got this box, so I set it up on my Powerbook 1.25 Ghz per these instruction, and it worked perfectly. So, I placed an order today for the mini. I need to figure out the audio situation, but recording and playing back HD content worked fine on my PowerBook, it should be just as good on the mini. Add an external DVD burner and hard drive (both of which I already have) and an Airport express Card and this is my ideal Mac media center.

Posted by: ijohn at Jan 17, 2005 4:39:00 PM

I have an ancient 400Mhz iMac DV. I edit iMovie's on Tell me why a 1.42Ghz Mini would not do great as a n HTPC, with the solutions mentioned? I'm sure this thing could handle HDTV.

Posted by: Falkenad at Jan 17, 2005 5:12:26 PM

For a Bluetooth remote control solution: try Salling Clicker (http://www.salling.com). It only costs US$19 and transforms your Bluetooth-equipped PDAs & mobile phones into a fully scriptable remote control for the Mac mini!

A must!!!

Posted by: SL at Jan 17, 2005 5:15:10 PM

i'd like to point to this page:
http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/merge.xhtml?doc2=91336

someone managed to get Xbench on to the mac mini @ macworld. looks like a toshiba laptop HD @4200rpm. dont know if this this will cut the hdtv either. but for under $500 there might be a few people willing to forgo the warranty and see what they can hack from it.

Posted by: macfan at Jan 17, 2005 5:18:20 PM

Use SwitchResX to make your HDTV set connect with the Mac mini over DVI.

http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/indexSRX.html

or this one...

http://www.3dexpress.de/displayconfigx/

Posted by: mac_hdtv_timer at Jan 17, 2005 6:37:22 PM

As I understand it, HD broadcasts come as MPEG2. Would transcoding to a newer codec solve the anticipated non-smooth playback problem with a miniMac (some say that a dual G5 is required for this)?

Posted by: Charles Schmidt at Jan 17, 2005 8:04:17 PM

Too bad we have to wait ONE WEEK to find out how it performs :(

(sooooo loooong to waaaiiiittt)

-------------
More talk at http://www.loudboard.com

Posted by: Lexor at Jan 18, 2005 1:03:07 AM

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/firewave/index.php

the FireWave from griffin technology [just released] uses a firewire port [but it has a second one so you can daisy chain] and does most anything one might need from an external audio card in a home theatre scenario .. unless i'm mistaken it even does dolby/etc and supports openAL and the like definitely take a look if you're looking to expand the audio options on your mac mini .. just for the record i have no association with griffin

Posted by: jeeves at Jan 18, 2005 5:41:27 PM

Many of the questions here concerning HD, PVR, and Mac-based HTPC have been answered in great detail in the audio-video hobbyist forums.

This AVS Forum thread may help folks who are thinking about recording HD on their Mac...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386740

Here is a thread about using the Mac Mini as a HTPC...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=494500

And some other home theater Mac forums...
http://www.mac-htpc.com
http://www.htmug.com (down at the moment)

An article's comments section shouldn't become a Q&A to the degree this one has (IMHO).

Posted by: RocksInMySocks at Jan 18, 2005 7:02:34 PM

>>> I was also concerned that the Mac mini would not be able to display any images as the screen is so large.

DVI video output for digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 pixels. (Analog resolutions to 1920 x 1080)

Posted by: Brendan Price at Jan 18, 2005 9:20:04 PM

I really want to be able to put a small silent box like this in my bedroom to use as an hd-pvr. It doesn't sound however as through this box has the horsepower needed.

What about running a MYTHTV front end on it and having the back end on a Linux server with a couple of hd-capture cards in a closet in my office?

That way the big noisy box is on the other end of the house and the sleek, stylish, quiet box's are in each of the bedrooms.

Would the MiniMac be up to the task? Would 100mb ethernet be fast enough? Would I have to rip osx out and install linux on the minimac? Why is there no multi channel sound output? Can the Minimac drive a 19 inch LCD HDTV screen. (the screen has composite, svidio, RCA, and digital inputs.

Posted by: Jonny at Jan 19, 2005 12:24:03 PM

I think this would make a great addition to a home theatre, except for one small problem:

The power button is on the back!

Why, Steve?! :(

Posted by: John at Jan 19, 2005 8:06:14 PM

to _victor,

I have a free classsicOS version of protools for mac which MacUp mag distributed on a CD. It and the new OSX version run beautifully.

My problem with the mini as PVR/mediapc is that so may exrtas are needed to get things going. EyTV, external HD etc.

If all you want is DVD-burning and PVR then isn't a combo DVD/HDR a more elegant option?

Posted by: Robert at Jan 20, 2005 8:13:26 AM

I have in my hands a tiny little package :))
Shipped on Jan 18th from China and got the delivery today.
Will post when I get a chance to open it later in the day!!
Yippie

Posted by: Chetan at Jan 20, 2005 10:43:30 AM

Two stumbling blocks seem to be:

1 - No dig audio out, but resolved with external sound card via usb

2 - The radeon 9200 apparently outputs progressive scan only... Interlaced would be nice for 1080i. Ideally, if there was an upgrade to the mini - which Radeon card (or others, I guess) would be better suited for HT use? I checked their site, but saw nothing about outputting interlaced.

Also, the elgato site states a user needs a dual G5 to stream live HD. Man, that seems like a helluva lot of processing power compared to what a cheapo set top box does. Why so much processor needed?

Posted by: Jesse Garron at Jan 20, 2005 2:00:52 PM

In response to:
_________________________________________
I think this would make a great addition to a home theatre, except for one small problem:

The power button is on the back!

Why, Steve?! :(
_______________________________________

It was done on purpose! The point is to make people understand that it never needs to be turned off! It's just like your tv or dvd player. You never turn those off either. When you hit power on those device they just go to sleep but stay on. Same thing with the Mac. When you want it "off" you put it to sleep. Instant off. Hard drive parks and locks. Uses essentially no electricity at all. Instant on. Wakes right where you left off, even if you were in the middle of a movie, it resumes immediately!

Posted by: Josh at Jan 24, 2005 9:39:36 AM

Wakes right where you left off, even if you were in the middle of a movie, it resumes immediately!

you really have to slow down with that one...coming from a windows background, this was very difficult for me to comprehend--the fact that it works, all the time. :)

Posted by: jon at Jan 24, 2005 12:49:41 PM

Anyone got a good way to port XP into these little things? I'd like to run SOFTWARE on it!

Posted by: Matt at Jan 25, 2005 11:58:09 AM

@Jon: I wonder why us Europeans are closed out from participation. The Mac Mini is here in Euro's and you might be aware of it, that the Euro is quite more wordt than the dollar!

Posted by: James T. Kirk at Jan 25, 2005 12:50:35 PM

If the forthcoming iMovie HD will run on a Mac mini, isn't this evidence that the machine can be used to play HD movies on a TV? I hope this is an issue that will be tested soon by Mac World or somebody. 720p would be plenty good enough for me.

Posted by: Charles Schmidt at Jan 25, 2005 7:03:05 PM

to all those people who are saying this thing won't play back video, run ilife, edit, etc....

I am currently using a new imac g4 1.25 to edit in FCP and work in DVDSP, and as a media server to watch xvid / divx / dvd's etc in the living room...

it performs flawlessly, and speedily. and the specs are identical to the mini, with the exception that I've added 512 mb of ram (for a total of 712). The only time it underperforms my dual 1.25 g4 desktop is when running FCP with several audio tracks or when rendering effects... which is far beyond what anybody is going to do with ilife.

Posted by: bob haskett at Jan 26, 2005 12:05:34 AM

It's a beautiful thing, to be sure. But does it work decently with Apple's own 30inch monitor? I've heard that the picture can become blurry when playing DVDs. And how quiet is it anyway? A very nice little mac, anyway.

Posted by: MSA at Jan 27, 2005 1:10:12 AM

When comparing the Mac Mini to a bottom line PC, be sure to look at several factors. First look at the video system. Most cheap PC's use video system that are relatively low performance and share system ram. The mini uses a very fast video system. Second look at bundled apps. iLife is a pretty impressive suite of aplications that run on a real G4 and not a stripped down Celeron.

Posted by: ershler at Jan 27, 2005 10:34:24 PM

Posted by: ershler at Jan 27, 2005 10:39:24 PM

I think a music media application for this small Mac is the ideal thing!

John

Posted by: John Parker at Jan 28, 2005 2:12:53 PM

the response from the pc buying public has been great. and the low price, and tiny size makes this (and more) all possible

my mac blog:
http://mactothefuture.blogspot.com/

Posted by: dman at Jan 29, 2005 7:12:14 AM

I've been a PC "expert" user for years and years...I took one look at the Mac Mini and couldn't resist!

My feast delve into the Mac world and I can't wait!

My main aim is to set it up for HT duties. I'm a UK user so we don't have HD just yet, but a VGA cable to my 7th Gen Panasonic 42" plasma will surely give me half decent results. I'll keep you posted.

Posted by: Woodster at Jan 31, 2005 9:53:03 AM

Mac mini - a killer Home Theater PC in the making?

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