A bit of bad TiVoToGo news

My friend Lia attended the digital lifestyle show in NYC this week and I asked her to hit the TiVo booth to get some info.

She got to play with the Humax DVD burner with TiVo that they're selling for $399. Here's what the interface looks like when you select shows to burn. Apparently the play menu looks just like a TiVo screen as well.

But the big question on my mind (and the one I egged Lia into asking) was about TiVoToGo. While they didn't share an exact launch date, a TiVo rep did say definitively that when it gets released soon, it will not have support for sending shows to a mac. I figured as much when I posted the other day, due to them using Windows Media Player's DRM, which to my knowledge only works in windows. The TiVo rep added that support for the mac should come soon, but they'll need Apple's cooperation to build it, but it'd take a while.

Thanks again Lia for getting the info!

Comments

[MegaZone]

The interface on the Humax and Tohiba units is very similar overall to the unit on the Pioneer units.

[Peter Östergren]

Apple's cooperation to build Windows Media DRM?

[Timothy Swan]

Looks like it will be quite a while before I can use TivoToGo. I don't even see the need for the DRM -- surely the quality of the compression that Tivo uses disqualifies it from being an exact digital copy. In most cases it's significantly lower in quality than good VCR technology.

[Josh]

"needs Apple cooperation" = euphemism for "will never see the light of day"

I knew this was coming, but to see it in print just makes it sting a wee bit.

(this is sorta like TiVo HMO lack of support for AAC files. Not protected AAC mind you, just plain old AAC, the iTunes default.)

Here's what employee TiVoBill had to say about it back in Mac:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1944189#post1944189

All in all, not good news for TiVo customers who also use Mac (or even just iTunes.)

[Chris]

Sounds like an invitation to crack the DRM. As a Mac user, I've been supportive of Tivo so far (though the AAC thing annoys the hell out of me), but if this is a Windows-only feature, I'll probably start thinking more seriously of MythTV-based recorders. I'd love to continue supporting Tivo, but if they release an incomplete TivoToGo (TTG), I may start shopping around.

The thing that annoys me is that there are clear ways to take the company to improve the product and continue winning market-share. The NetFlix thing is a good idea, TTG is a good one, and HMO was great. However, pushing the device in a Windows-only direction is not. As another poster suggested, there is a strong affinity between Tivo and Mac users. Alienating Mac users is probably a much worse thing for Tivo to do than would be the case with other vendors and products.

And, when will Tivo start working on a CableCard box? It's a no-brainer and precisely what the CableCard regulations were intended for?

</end rant>

[Josh]

For the record, when I wrote above:
"Here's what employee TiVoBill had to say about it back in Mac"

I meant to say:
"Here's what employee TiVoBill had to say about it back in MAY"

...but y'all knew that, right?

[Josh]

Speaking of cracking the DRM, video extraction off of a TiVo has been possible for quite some time, and there's enough information out there that makes it pretty trivial for even a non-hacker.

So this Mac user says, to hell with TiVo-to-Go, I've got something better and more versatile already!

(But hey Mr. TiVo, hehe, we'd still like to see Mac support, pretty please, and hehe, thank you very much.)

[Kevin Reynen]

TiVo need to put in GIANT RED LETTERS a disclaimer regarding using DVDR TiVos and Home Media feature...

DISCLAIMER: While you can view content recorded on a standard Series2 TiVo on a TiVo with DVD burning functionality using the TiVo Home Media function, you CANNOT burn this content to a DVD.

You can read more about my issues with this on my blog...

http://blog.evankai.com/archives/000500.php

[Larry]

What I want to know is what is the encoding like compared to the Pioneer units. And Kevin...I thought that was common knowledge. It says so about a million times in the manual.

[lia]

>"needs Apple cooperation" = euphemism for "will never see the light of day"

The TiVo employee I spoke with mentioned that when they showed TiVo To Go at CES they showed with Mac support, but they aren't comfortable enough with what they have to release with Mac support.

They might release an unsupported Mac alpha or beta at some point, they'd like to have full on Mac support released before the end of the year -- presumably well before the end of the Christmas buying rush. Not much time left till that though...

[pb]

Josh, program extraction on Tivos is very difficult even for hackers. It is however easy on ReplayTV. I set it up in a matter of minutes with mere program downloads on both my Windows and Mac. Not only can I pull down programs, I can stream and watch, wired or wireless. As someone noted earlier, Tivo should allow this since the quality is poor enough so as discourage trading. Merely getting straightforward, legitimate utility out of technology.

[Brad]

It's not surprising. Mac's are 5% of the market, perhaps among Tivo owners somewhat higher (say 7 to 10%). To develop an equivalent capability to the PC solution just to service less than 10% of the market doesn't make good economic sense.

PC's are so incredibly cheap that if a Mac owner really wanted to have TTG for DVD burning, it would cost less than $300 for a system to do this.

[Jason Snell]

TiVo told me the percent of TiVo customers who are Mac users is FAR higher than the percent in the general "market share" population. I don't remember the number but I believe it was way above 10%.

Also, I was at CES and indeed they showed it working on a Mac. Part of the issue is apparently that they are using the Sonic stuff that is Windows-only.

-jason (Macworld)

[Jason Snell]

Ah, I found my info:

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2004/01/000031/index.php

The Mac market share at TiVo is roughly 15%.

[Nathan]

"It's not surprising. Mac's are 5% of the market, perhaps among Tivo owners somewhat higher (say 7 to 10%). To develop an equivalent capability to the PC solution just to service less than 10% of the market doesn't make good economic sense."

Does it make sense to ignore 10+% of your userbase? What if those 10% decided to abandon TiVo?

[Gerry]

Program extraction from a Tivo. I have heard that it is easy to do (as you say Josh) and I have heard that it is hard to do (as you say Lia). I am a new Tivo user and I am interested in learning how to port content and would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

[poltergiest]

Sure blows, but I guess I will have to find virtual pc 7 and sonic and burn it that way.

[Andy Pichotta]

The Tivo users with Mac Market share is close to 20%, even if it was 10% would you really say no to 1 out of every 10 customers? Seems dumb to me. Also with that "you can buy a PC for 300 bucks" hey I wanna watch a Movie on it, i doubt a 300 PC can do that very well. That Sub-600 dollar G4 comming out on Jan. 11th will be good with Movies though. TiVoToGo better have Mac support, or they will be hurtin' even more economically.

[jrocnuck]

Well.. if this thing is anything like the original HMO, they'll charge MAC users for it for about a year, and then it will all of a sudden be free... I wonder what the people who paid $50 for the home media option were thinking when TiVo released that for free later on? In the mean time, maybe some developers can figure out how to stream AAC files through the JavaHMO server to the TiVo box...

[cyberg]

I thought HMO was a cool upgrade for $50. And I don't get too upset that its now free. My 1st VCR cost $1000 back in the late 70's and a blank tape cost about $19. I bought at least 2 more VCRs before the average consumer even knew that there was a device that could "record" TV. I'd been doing it for some time.

Being an early adopter has its price, and you take the bad with the good.

I own a Windows PC and not a Mac, so I look forward to the TivoToGo feature until the next cool thing comes along.