TiVo to Go -- Finally!!!
Huge TiVo news has been coming down the CES newswire today, some highlights:
TiVo is committed to launching a few new products in 2004, including the long-awaited HDTV DirecTiVo which they are still claiming first quarter 2004 for release. I can't wait to buy one of those. They've also signed up Toshiba and Humax to make DVD burning standalone TiVos like the ones that Pioneer is currently producing. The biggest news of all is that they're finally going to allow video extraction:
TiVo to Go is what they're calling their new video extraction, which sounds like it will be some DRM protection scheme applied to recordings you can download to your PC from your TiVo. They'll also allow you to burn downloaded shows to DVD. It'll be interesting to see how the TiVo hacking community uses/modifies/cracks this technology. If they wanted to prevent all piracy, I'm surprised you can burn DVDs, as it seems the content is pretty much fair game for DVD rippers at that point, but perhaps they won't allow DVDs to play on anything but computer DVD drives that carry your encrypted TiVo key. It doesn't launch until Fall of 2004, which seems like a long time in such a lively marketplace. Hopefully they don't deliver it too late to market.
That said, this is the biggest news of all and many a TiVo owner is probably dancing in the streets after hearing this news. I can't wait for it, though ideally, I'd want a HDTV DirecTiVo that did it but I bet they continue lagging their DirecTV devices behind the standalone product line.
Lastly, BravoBrava has announced some sort of technology gateway that will allow you to remotely schedule your TiVo recordings using alternate PDA and cell phone interfaces, though frankly it's not the most useful (programming grids are a pain to navigate on a tiny cellphone screen) or innovative feature (snapstream has had this for ages, and TiVo should have just made a wap gateway for their existing web service).
So, I'm all for an HD tivo, and maybe it's just me with what I watch (mainly network programs), but why would I want a DirectTV HD Tivo? (As far as I can tell, I can't get NBC, CBS, etc in HD).
Right now I can get HD local channels, but just don't have a way to record them (and love my current TiVo).
Posted by: Lucien | January 08, 2004 at 06:16 PM
According to the press release (first link above), the HD DirecTiVo can record HD off the air as well as off the dish. It has four tuners -- which probably means two for satellite content and two for local signals.
Posted by: Ernie Longmire | January 08, 2004 at 06:40 PM
Ernie, from everything I've read about the HD DirecTiVo box, only two of the inputs will be used at any one time, even though there are four of them.
Posted by: Matt Haughey | January 08, 2004 at 06:52 PM
By the way, I added more HD TiVo news in a new post.
Posted by: Matt Haughey | January 08, 2004 at 08:20 PM
Matt: My read of the press release leads me to believe that TiVo is copying Apple's approach to DRM. There's nothing technically stopping the user from burning a CD full of iTunes content and then ripping all of it back to the hard drive as unencrypted DVDs, and the music industry seems okay with that. I guess they figure that similar things will apply to content burned to a DVD... as long as they make a legit effort to keep copying under control, the MPAA may just leave them alone.
Posted by: Roger Benningfield | January 08, 2004 at 11:13 PM
Er... "unencrypted MP3s". Sorry.
Posted by: Roger Benningfield | January 08, 2004 at 11:14 PM
Roger according to Peter at Gizmodo, the DVD playback sounds like it will be limited to computers that carry a USB key dongle with them. I haven't seen this reported anywhere else, but he's in Vegas so maybe he's gotten an inside scoop on it.
If true, it would mean you probably wouldn't be able to rip the DVD (unless it was hacked) and it would also mean your DVDs wouldn't play in typical DVD players, which is kind of insane. Of course, there are simple DVD ripping tools for linux, so if the disks are real DVDs, there will be a way to extract DRM-free content from them somehow. I tend to think nothing they do is going to be foolproof and they better be careful that the DRM doesn't get in the way of normal use.
As long as they can make the exported video work great cross platform and run in normal DVD players, it should be fine with the DRM, but if they put any limits on how many times you can view, burn, or share your DVDs with others, it'll be the kiss of death for selling the features to users. People want these features and they don't want the software limits to get in the way of them enjoying the shows they recorded.
Posted by: Matt Haughey | January 08, 2004 at 11:22 PM
Matt: TiVo's CEO confirmed in yesterday's conference call that burned DVDs will play in standard player devices.
Posted by: Roger Benningfield | January 09, 2004 at 11:15 AM
The article I read stated that this feature will require software from Sonic Solutions. I suppose this means it's a Windows-only feature?
Posted by: Bret Aarden | January 11, 2004 at 01:38 PM
This is where a home built solution beats Tivo. I have SnapStream BeyondTV, which will encode my shows into these tiny little WMV files which I can then copy to my PocketPC for viewing on the go. Yeah, its Windows Media, but they files aren't encyrpted, and I still have my original MPEG-2 files, which are DVD ready.
The home built solutions cost a little more, but the versatility of them can't be beat.
Posted by: Benjamin Hoppe | January 11, 2004 at 08:41 PM
Actually, in the long run it's cheaper to use SnapStream's stuff since you don't have to pay a month fee ever. The problem with PC-based recorders is getting the shows back to your TV easily for viewing (which either requires you putting a computer in your living room or using a network media device to stream them from your computer to the TV).
Posted by: Matt Haughey | January 11, 2004 at 08:48 PM
Why doesn't someone coble together a decent Tivo copy using MythTv or Freevo with TitanTV or XMLTV program guide? MythTV and Freevo are frustrating in that they prioritize skins and photos over just working correctly.
Posted by: pb | January 13, 2004 at 10:27 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if the TivoToGo option will allow you to copy exported files back to the TiVo, as if the computer were another standalone unit with HMO. That'd let you use an arbitrarily-large HD on your computer as an external cache, which would largely eliminate the need for hacking a new hard drive into the TiVo itself.
Posted by: Ernie Longmire | January 14, 2004 at 05:24 PM
Dont get me wrong, Im a huge Tivo fan, and its definitely changed my life with regards to entertainment... but IMO Tivo needs to get on the ball. Tivo seems intent on releasing new 'features' as add-ons with associated add-on costs. They have partnered with a wintel developer to create their PC software, so I really doubt this item will be a freebee when i comes out... I can even see Tivo charging another $99 'one time fee' for it.
So assuming that... lets say you want two recorders, want to share shows, and other HMO goodness, and also copy content off to your PC. With those specs your looking at.
Tivo Series 2 40hr - $249.00 (-50 rebate)
Tivo Series 2 40hr - $249.00 (-50 rebate)
Home Media Option - $99.00
2nd Home Media Opt - $49.00
TivoToGo - $99.00
TOTAL: $745.00
Now, ReplayTV that used to be an 'also ran' because of their manditory up front pricing ($400-600 for a unit with 3 year service) suddenly gets very attractive.
ReplayTV 40hr Unit - $149.00
ReplayTV 40hr Unit - $149.00
Home Media Services - $0 (BuiltIn)
Tivo To Go Services - $0 (Freely available programs avail on web)
TOTAL: $298
So Tivo comes in at $745 while ReplayTV comes in at $298. Sure Tivo has a more polished interface IMO, but is it really THAT much better? I had to see for myself... so I picked up a ReplayTV for $149 this weekend. In 30 minutes I had it up and running, getting program data over my network and could access it via software on my PC and extract mpgs to view on my computer. Nothing additional to buy, it worked right out of the box.
Even if Tivo gives away TivoToGo it may be too little too late. The pricing still is over twice ReplayTV, and the TivoToGo system is big on DRM while I can pull straight mpgs off the replay and do whatever i want with them. Also Tivo is promising a feature late this year, that replay already has. Ive spent years ignoring replay due to their high cost... but thats changed... Tivo needs to take a look at the competition and get more competitive. I think they have to some point... visiting their website shows 'Tivos as low as $149.95' like they have gotten competitive on pricing... unfortunately when you go there you find that its for refurbs.
Am I missing something here? or is tivo REALLY non competitive on price? I love the Tivo interface, and find the replay interface a bit clunky... functional but clunky... theres alot that can bee overlooked for over $300 difference in price.
Well enough of my rant. Return to your regularly scheduled discussion, or nearest convienient parallel plane of existence.
Posted by: Alchemist | January 19, 2004 at 03:16 PM
Has anyone heard of anyone using a PC to act like a second Tivo series 2 for the purpose of using the multiroom viewing option in Tivo HMO. I see the speculations regarding Tivo to Go. But I'm more interested in streaming video recorded from my Snap Stream or extracted from Tivo and stored like video on demand on a killer hard drive on my PC. This would resolve the problem of how the interface SnapStream recordings back to the Family room.
Posted by: RustieH | February 09, 2004 at 09:52 PM
Matt, in reponse to your comment, http://www.elgato.com and their new eyeTV 200 is prob. the best device (computer wise) i have seen...the catch - you need a mac.
Posted by: Kesey | March 10, 2004 at 04:54 PM
Does ReplayTV have the same features as TiVo? Basically, the only reason I'm on the fence is that I want Season Pass and the Thumbs Up/Down thing so it can find other shows for me. Please e-mail me the answer incase I forget thus web site address.
SonicJMC@techie.com
Posted by: Jeff | April 26, 2004 at 11:21 AM
Can I get a cable to go from the rca jacks to the usb on my pc -if yes where?
Posted by: terry u | September 25, 2004 at 01:58 PM
Will they ever make an HD Tivo that burns to DVD?
Posted by: Bill | October 06, 2004 at 11:27 PM
Bill, I would strongly doubt it. The movie studios are so freaked out about the possibility that folks can copy or store high quality copies of anything, and cut into their future DVD sales.
Posted by: Matt Haughey | October 06, 2004 at 11:55 PM
Check this out: http://www.pioneerburner.com/. They've do make Tivo DVDR's. Pioneer makes a GREAT one. EXPENSIVE as all get out.. but they're out there.
Posted by: Gary Davis | October 12, 2004 at 01:08 PM
This is a different Gary Davis from the one who posted above about the Pioneer TiVo/DVD burner. I also tested that device and it was the WORST TiVo and DVD burner I had ever tested. The A>D>MPEG was severly flawed (grain or noise in the original signal flickers in the recording), and the DVD feature was horrible - you could only burn an entire show without editing to a DVD, and it takes a full DVD for 1 hr at Best quality. If you tell TiVo to record an extra minute - guess what - you'll need 2 blank DVD for that! Recordings at High Quality were decidedly worse.
--Gary
Posted by: Gary Davis | October 14, 2004 at 12:03 PM
I am a new TIVO user and hopefully soon a MythTV user. The major issue I see with TV is its inability to record and playback digital audio, for use in my Home Theater system. Granted I bought the low end series 2 to begin with but I was really spoiled with the high quality video and audio produced by my previous DISH network DVR system. I must admit that Tivo wins the user interface/features though hands down.
Posted by: Anon Imus | October 28, 2004 at 11:35 AM
nov 15, 2004, todays big GoodGuys christmas flyer says Tivo to Go, but has not arrived in stores yet!!
Posted by: TY | November 15, 2004 at 06:51 PM
So does this work with Directv Tivo Series 2 (RCA DVR40)? Since it doesn't come with the USB enabled.
Posted by: marlonf | January 03, 2005 at 05:21 AM
Has anyone checked out sagetv.com?
Posted by: Richard | January 09, 2005 at 07:11 AM
I'm really disappointed. I've just read this thread and find the comparison to the ReplayTV product from Sonic Blue. Very good writeup BTW.
Anyway.. The TivoToGo feature they did decide to give away. Fine so long as you buy a product from Sonic to actually use it. Still charging, but not so as Tivo users see it in an obvious way. That's really okay though, albeit sneaky, as I am *VERY* willing to pay for these features. (Bad marketing info perhaps???!?!?)
Funny thing here is..
IT DOESN'T WORK.
Full stop.. Don't kid yourself. You can't do anything with Sonic besides burn a DVD.
Seems that FCC reg's mean that you can download an entire show, but that's all. Tivo mod'd the mpeg standard so that it is currently a pain in the **** (fill in any 4 letter variant you like) to actually modify the show.
So.. Let's say you want to cut out the commercials.. Can't do it. Or cut out a particular bit, (like me being filmed for a bit at a Lakers game because I was in the stands) from a longer (the game went 2OT for 3+ hours) movie. Wouldn't it be cool to send a mail to your friends saying.. "Guess where I was..", then include the clip.
FRAK.
What is ironic is that you can copy it to a VCR (like the Sony DV one that I have) and edit to your hearts content. And yet.. This nonsense.
My question to TIVO is: Who do they think they are dealing with??
BTW - If anyone knows how to do this.. WITH ANY PRODUCT combination..
Please comment here!!
Thanks,
m.
Posted by: Mike | February 25, 2005 at 01:21 AM
Check this out if you are interested in togo. http://www.evillabs.net/tivo/
Posted by: shyson | March 17, 2005 at 11:25 AM