NYT on Tivo vs. Cable

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NYT on Tivo vs. Cable

Seth Scheisel has a good piece in the NY Times about the impact of cable companies who are bundling in PVR capabilities into the newest digital cable set-top boxes. It is all bad news for Tivo.

In the end, Mr. Palermo was turned off from TiVo by the prospect of having to connect all kinds of wires and adding a new box to his home entertainment system. So, instead, he ordered a relatively new product that his cable company, Time Warner Cable, a unit of Time Warner, has been pitching: a set-top box made by Scientific-Atlanta with a DVR already built in.

I'm trying to frame the current competition between the standalone PVR manufacturers with the incumbent providers within the framework of Harvard Business School's Clayton Christensen's theories involving "disruptive technologies." It is clear that hard-disk based media recording is disruptive, but executing on that is the challenge that Tivo may have sadly missed.
NY Times - Can Cable Fast-Forward Past TiVo?

by Gen Kanai October 19, 2003 in TiVo

Comments

Can I just say that the Time Warner Cable box sucks? I mean, it really sucks. It crashes at times, it's very slow to respond, etc, etc. I am on a Yahoo! Mailing list about these boxes and I consider myself lucky that my box doesn't do what other people's boxes do.

Overall, this product was released way too early and is too expensive (even at a much lower rate than the TiVo) to be reliable.

I lose programs, things don't tape, some things tape twice.. It really, really is not such a good product.

Of course, my cell phone likes to turn itself off at inopportune times, as well, so maybe it's just me.

Posted by: Andrew Preston at Oct 20, 2003 4:40:10 AM

I've converted several friends from the TW DVR to DirectTivo. The TW Box is too unreliable, and lacks features like Wishlists and Season Passes.

Posted by: David Bland at Oct 20, 2003 6:20:30 AM

This article really pissed me off because the writer neglected to mention that the Scientific Atlanta boxes offered by Time Warner are big pieces of shit.

Tivo will continue to thrive as long as the software it uses remains so much better than that in use by the cable companies.

Posted by: carlo at Oct 20, 2003 9:28:03 AM

I've had the TW DVR for two months, and aside from a few minor glitches (a program that didn't record, the occasional lock-up and reboot, infrequent 1-second pauses in live TV), the box is great. I haven't had any major issues with it and I was prepared for them after reading online sob stories about the box before ordering it. My best recommendation for it is that my wife, who's non-technical when it comes to TVs and VCRs, has no problems recording shows and playing them back later. I'd like to see some improvements in the interface but overall we're both happy with the box and we're not getting rid of it.

Posted by: Phil at Oct 20, 2003 9:52:16 AM

I have had the TW DVR for a couple of months and haven't had any problems with its recording functionality. No missed programs (unless I screw up the settings) no double programs, I love the skip back a few seconds button, I love the whole recorded-tv concept..

It *is* though, a step down in terms of responsiveness in ca ble-box fundtionality as compared to the regular cable box.

As compare to TiVo? I don't know TiVo.
But.
I didn't have to buy any equipment.
I pay less than TiVo users do.
I don't need a phone like hookup (do they still need that for TiVo?)
I believe TiVo is indeed dead.
Software is easy to change, and to upgrade via cable overnight on every box out there. If the reason people prefer TiVo is software... then RIP TiVo.

Posted by: yayo at Oct 20, 2003 12:09:42 PM

I've got to agree with Phil and Yayo about the TW DVR. I've had it for two months and I've only had one problem with the box resetting in the middle of watching live tv (baseball world series) while recording (alias). of course, having this box and interface really makes me wonder what i'm missing by not having a two tuner TIVO.

Posted by: marc at Oct 21, 2003 1:40:40 PM

notice those flaming tivo here have never had tivo ! they have no clue what makes tivo magical- my favorite comment is from phil:
"I believe TiVo is indeed dead.
Software is easy to change, and to upgrade via cable overnight on every box out there. If the reason people prefer TiVo is software... then RIP TiVo"
. uh phil ever heard of mr softee- seems they did ok with software!! and just so you know tivo has over 100 patents - why not try a tivo and then make comments like Tivo is dead- oh and notify the million tivo users and growing they may not know it is dead lol

Posted by: kevin at Oct 21, 2003 5:26:15 PM

sorry comment was from yayo not phil

Posted by: kevin at Oct 21, 2003 5:27:44 PM

check this post out for some comparisons from a TW dvr user who also has tivo not pretty for tw
http://www.davehitt.com/march03/twdvr.html

Posted by: kevin at Oct 21, 2003 5:30:22 PM

In fairness, I have to say that the above referenced article was before a series of upgrades were performed.

I don't have a TiVo, but I know that they're not as unreliable (still) as the TW DVR.

The TW DVR has been upgraded over the cable a number of times in different areas, but it's still missing a lot of functionality that TiVo's have.

Posted by: Andrew Preston at Oct 22, 2003 2:06:34 AM

It doesn't really matter how bad the cable boxes are. They will have a massive distribution and pricing advantage. So long, Tivo.

Posted by: pb at Oct 22, 2003 10:07:19 AM

gee pb- how intelligent- so you are saying no matter how good a technology is, as long it is a small company it can never win???? hmmm- how do we explain the rise of EVERY OTHER company to make it ????? ridiculous !

Posted by: kevin at Oct 22, 2003 6:04:01 PM

I have to back up pb here, especially after reading the Red Herring article on PVRs that was linked here by Matt.

I don't think that pb is saying that no small company can ever win against a big company, but that in this case, Tivo vs. the cable companies, it is really an unfair fight.

The cable companies are giving away for free the SA8000 cable box/DVR (a $400 box) with only a monthly fee at "penetration pricing" (i.e. pricing so cheap as to get a mass-market as quickly as possible) whereas Tivo and the other CE companies are trying their hardest to stay profitable by selling either more capable hardware or more intuitive software. If the cable companies can recoup the cost of the hardware they are giving away for free within a few years as well as learn more about their customers' viewing habits, as well as lower churn, it's clear to many people, including Wall Street, that the standalone companies are at a disadvantage.

Just take a look at Tivo's stock price or their recent 10K. Sobering stuff there.

Posted by: Gen Kanai at Oct 22, 2003 11:25:37 PM

I have had Tivo for about 2 years. At first it was great. The programs recorded just fine except it would miss the endings which was fixable. but now since they put out an upgrade for tivo about 6 months ago, I have seen poor reliability. About everytime I turn on my tv, the tivo is locked up. And alot of times, I will be watching tv, and the thing wil die, and reboot itself. I have put some hacks on, and have it networked to my computer. right now im not very happy about the poor reliablilty.

Posted by: James at Mar 31, 2004 7:38:07 AM

hey if you turn on your tv and you see a show that is just ending can you rewind it and watch the whole thing without it being taped

Posted by: Brad at Mar 31, 2004 1:53:18 PM

Tivo=Mac. That's the way it's going.

Posted by: Howard Owens at May 1, 2004 9:54:32 AM

All these people saying their Cable DVR is a better deal are forgetting something very important... TiVo users LOVE their TiVos. As a custom AV contractor, I've installed dozens of TiVos and Cable PVRs for every sort of people, and cable will never have the customer loyalty that TiVo has. People just don't LOVE their Cable PVRs... they like them alright, and use them without complaining, but they don't rave about them, ever.

Last year, 2 customers had TiVo hard drive crashes. We could have had them removed & serviced quickly, but they opted to have us install a brand new one instead, just so they wouldn't have to go even one day without their TiVo. And these were IN WARRANTY.

TWC's bland PVR will never have the customer loyalty that TiVo has. They'd be much better served to licence TiVo software & replace theirs.

Posted by: Doug at Jul 9, 2004 4:53:08 PM

I'm about to get either TiVo or a TWDVR and many of the early negative review of the TWDVR are from more than a year ago. What would folks do now if you were going to invest in either system? One of the differences seems to be amount of recording time--but teh 80 hr. Tivo box is over 200 and then the 13.00 a month fee--a bigger initial investment, but TW is not all that cheap either (i think they just offer the 40 hour box?).
Looking forward to your comments--
thanks,
cupcake

Posted by: cupcake at Jul 23, 2004 9:21:52 AM

Im thinking about having my cable company come out and install a DVR; I have a VCR now and would like to have it stay hooked up and functional.

My question is---Will I have full functionality from my VCR--(sometimes I would still want to save a TV program to a VCR tape as i have done in the past.)

Is there anything that would stand in the way of me using the full functionality-of the VCR and the DVR

Would they conflict--Is there anything that I can do with my VCR now--(watch a program while recording another one on my VCR) that would not be functionable when I have my cable DVR hooked up?

thanks

jesse Dee

Posted by: jesse at Sep 10, 2004 1:31:47 AM

I have had the Explorer 8000 from TW. The hard drive keeps crashing. I have had 5 of these boxes crash. The technicians come around to replace them say that they have had nothing but problems with them. Scientific Atlanta said to make sure that I got the new box, the Explorer 8300.

TW has come 3 times this week to replace my latest crashed box. The firt time they didn't bring a box, the second and thrid time they brought an 8000 even though they had promised me an 8300.

I don't have my replacement yet.

Posted by: Karen Falcon at May 26, 2005 2:55:15 PM

I just bought a TiVo on sale at compUSA (40 Hour for 59.99) so i cant say that it wasent a good deal. I have the cable companys DVR (I have Adelphia not TW, but I think the hardware is the same Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8000) I love my Adephia DVR the only problem I have had is that some times the sound will drop out and i have to reboot the box. i think the QOS all depends on whar firmware you are using, as i have very few problems. the only real thing that h me dissapointed about the TiVo is that it does not have dual tuner or a wake up feature. i hae myabox set to turn on at 5:30AM so that i wake up to the news. i wfigured that the tivo would have something like that. i think i am going to end up keeping both and using the TiVo as a half @$$ed media center PC because it can interface with the network. The thing i wish is that i could have the TiVo software merged with the SA box, that would be a truly great DVR!!!

Posted by: Bryce at Aug 1, 2005 2:21:03 PM

Let me start by saying as an employee of Time Warner Cable & a former tivo user. (who now uses TW DVR) I must say that the TW DVR recorder is a piece of crap!!! I think I'm in the best position to comment on this topic...First point: Anyone who thinks I'm a bitter employee need only go to one of TWC's New York offices (in any borough) and see the endless lines of pissed off customers holding all kinds of crappy refurbished Scientific Atlanta DVR, HD , and Digital boxes. It speaks for itself!!! For those who haven't had problems YET, be prepared...ALL TWC EQUIPMENT IS REFURBISHED... So it's just a matter of time before your box goes too! We're pushed to sell products that are either, too expensive, or simply not ready to be rolled out (but they are anyway). Second Point: Not only is the TWC DVR box a piece of junk, the cable system overall can be best described as suspect...Take the very poorly performing "ON DEMAND" services...Nearly half of all calls fielded by customer service reps are in regards to On demand problems...TWC Charges $7.50 monthly for this service that never works!!! THIRD POINT: The company is an absolute joke... when employees at TWC complain to management about the inadequate service being offered to customers, they're told to keep quiet because fielding those complaints KEEPS THEM EMPLOYED!!!! I have worked at a number of other companies with various ways of doing business. With that said I must note that TWC has been BY FAR the most poorly managed, least structured, and worst organized company of any I've ever seen. Its a sad fact but TWC's monopoly on the NYC cable market has got the consumer by the BALLS!!! This is known and openly bragged about at Time Warner. ANYONE IN THE TWC COVERAGE AREA SHOULD DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. Subscribe to DirecTV or Dish (more user friendly, better prices)
2. DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO TWC DIGITAL PHONE: This is yet another over-priced crappy product. This little gimmick is a way for the company to get it's tentacles around you. Far more CONS than PROS. (YOUR FAR BETTER OFF W/VONAGE it's better & cheaper) or use your cellphone.
3. DOUBLE & TRIPLE CHECK YOUR TWC BILL: Many employees at TWC are incompetent, and are infamous for making billing errors, scheduling errors, and the worst WIRING & INSTALLATION SCREW-UPS!!!

In closing I'll note that TWC is currently beta testing cellphone service in the Midwest...They expect to make this product available to the public early next year...If the cellphone performs anything like our cable service, I would advise you to go somewhere else...Thank god we don't have a monopoly on cellphone service...Yet!

Posted by: terminator at Aug 4, 2005 1:45:22 AM

test

Posted by: ktaz at Oct 24, 2005 7:10:43 AM

I HAD TWC/Brighthouse in the Tampa area and I totally agree...!!! The Dish Network PVR/DVR AND service Rocks! Much Much better than SA DVR user by Brighthouse. And it cost less. It's amazing! Betters pic's, customer service, rates everything. I will never go back to cable...!!!!

I put in my Dish Network order here: http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=235701 I actually called the number on the page because I have a 2 story house and wanted 4 rooms all with DVR's installed which they did for FREE! They even came out the next day! I was concerned about extra installation charges due to having a 2 story. Nope no problem! Very impressive company and service

It looks like an affiliate page, they have a huge affiliate network. Probably put a few bucks in someone’s pocket. I'd rather give it to someone out there trying to make ends meet than line the local cable fat cats pockets. But anyway this site has all the information about the service including toll free number if you have questions like I did and don't want to order online.

Posted by: Lonnie at Feb 8, 2006 6:17:05 PM

Does anyone know if I can buy a second digital cable box for my time warner NYC digital service? I have a Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 currently and I would like another one, without renting it monthly from time warner. I have MythTV running. Also anyone know anything about using the usb interface on the Scientific Atlantic Explorer 2100 to send keyboard codes from my linux pc to the cable box to change channels?

Posted by: plasticcube at Jun 6, 2006 4:49:56 PM

Posted by: plasticcube at Jun 7, 2006 7:01:50 AM

TiVo . . .hands down ! No question!
We have both and I HATE the cable DVR . . .That is actually why I am writing . . .I JUST had ANOTHER bad experience and I am fired up . . . . I hate it . . .We had TiVo first and I guess I was spoiled by TiVo . . . It is just so easy . . .better searches for upcoming movies and programs, so easy . . . selecting upcoming programs to record . . .. so easy. . if you don’t know what you want to record in particular. . .TiVo is a so easy to search by movie . .by actor etc. I know cable offers these features but it is NOT easy. To much work to go through the menus etc . . . . TiVo has easier controller functions . . .much better forward and rewinds through recorded shows. . .I just can’t believe anyone who has actually compared the two would be able to say they like the cable DVR better . . .If anyone says that they are LYING . . . It just does not compare. TiVo hands down . . . my concern is that Cable DVR, due to it convenience and availability, will win out. Why pay for quality when you can get crap for free!

Posted by: Sandy at Jun 26, 2007 6:34:44 PM

NYT on Tivo vs. Cable

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