Tivo: First Mover Disadvantage?

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Tivo: First Mover Disadvantage?

There's a challenging piece at Forbes on why Tivo is so loved by it's users and the Tivo community, but how that hasn't translated into mass-market demand for the product and service. Adi Kishore, a media and entertainment analyst for the Yankee Group in Boston, says

"I can't think of any product that has had the satisfaction levels it has had but has been as sluggish in terms of the growth of the market. It's certainly unusual for a product to have this kind of enthusiasm from the community that's using it without being able to tip over and really become a mass-market phenomenon."

Forbes.com: TiVo Sales Remain Tepid Despite Fanatic Fans

by Gen Kanai September 11, 2003 in TiVo

Comments

Sheesh, this isn't exactly hard to figure out.

1. It is too expensive. All of the people listed who love it make millions of dollars a year. I'm far more inclined to drop $150 bucks for a PVR card to put in one of my computers than 300 + monthly service charge.

2. It is tied to a subscription service and if the Tivo corporation goes under you've got a brick sitting next to your television instead of a fun gadget.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward at Sep 12, 2003 7:37:25 PM

Some more reasons...

3. Instead of dropping $300+ for what is essentially a fancy VCR, consumers can either learn how to program their VCR, watch the show when it re-airs, or ask a friend to tape it.

4. The perceived benefit of pausing live TV isn't worth the price.

5. The best feature, skipping commercials, something a consumer should have the right to do, has been hidden, removed, or negatively altered limiting it's functionality.

6. No easy way to archive, watch on other TV's in the house, or give to a friend, without spending a lot more money (again, free functionality via the VCR).

7. Mostly crap on TV these days. Consumers spending their free time browsing the web reading blogs like this one instead. ;)

Posted by: Dylan Greene at Sep 14, 2003 12:43:34 PM

I disagree with most the comments posted to date. TiVo is probably too expensive for the average consumer at $200 plus subscription or $500 (roughly) without monthly fees. However, a $50 TV card does not make a PC into a TiVo. Do what you want, but if the average user isn't going to buy a TiVo, they sure as heck aren't going to stack a Dell PC on top of their TV and try to make it into a PVR.

The one comment that hits home is "No easy way to archive, watch on other TV's in the house, or give to a friend."

The other comments about figuring out how to program your VCR etc. are off base. A TiVo is not a VCR at all; it does not replace a VCR. In fact, having TiVO integrate better with a VCR would really improve the product.

But in the end, cost is simply the major factor in not being mass-market. Cost will continue to fall and eventually basic TiVo functionality will hit consumer pricing levels for mass-market adoption.

Posted by: David Beckemeyer at Sep 15, 2003 9:29:19 AM

"2. It is tied to a subscription service and if the Tivo corporation goes under you've got a brick sitting next to your television instead of a fun gadget."

Hardly. A TiVo w/o the service works just like a VCR. Shows are recorded by setting a start/stop time.

"3. Instead of dropping $300+ for what is essentially a fancy VCR, consumers can either learn how to program their VCR, watch the show when it re-airs, or ask a friend to tape it."

Anyone that uses a TiVo for a week would never refer to it as a "fancy VCR" again. I've yet to find a "fancy VCR" that allows me to browse through and INSTANTLY access all my recorded shows.

Quite simply, the TiVo has the best consumer UI ever created by human hands. When I got my TiVo 2 years ago, my children were 2 and 4. Within 3 weeks, they knew how to record their own shows and browse the recorded shows. All I had to show them was press the red circle to record and click the TiVo button twice to find a show. Of course, at that age they could barely read, so they knew to look at the first letter of each show name and select the one that sounded like their show.

"4. The perceived benefit of pausing live TV isn't worth the price."

I pause TV all the time: telephone rings, kids need help, run to the church to pray that the field goal is good, etc. ;)

"5. The best feature, skipping commercials, something a consumer should have the right to do, has been hidden, removed, or negatively altered limiting it's functionality."

TiVo has never had a commercial skip feature - that was ReplayTV. On the other hand, you can FF through commercials far faster on a TiVo than any tape-based recording device can.

"6. No easy way to archive, watch on other TV's in the house, or give to a friend, without spending a lot more money (again, free functionality via the VCR)."

The TiVo has multiple output ports. Most people wire one to their TV and the other to their VCR. If you really need to archive something, TiVo has a playback mode specifically for this. Pop a tape in the VCR, hit record then hit play on the TiVo and you're done.

Posted by: Jay at Sep 15, 2003 10:58:18 AM

Maybe I'm behind the curve here, but: You can use a TiVo without the subscription service? That's news to me, and would be news to a lot of people. At $200 (or even $250, since the rebate requires a service plan), the box is the right price -- much better for a non-techie like me than jerry-rigging something with a PC -- but the service charges, whether lump-sum or subscription, have always stopped me. Can someone please save me the time of wading through all the TiVo hack sites and show me someone explaining what subscriptionless operation looks like?

Posted by: Sean at Sep 23, 2003 2:02:00 PM

Subscription-less operation is pretty straightword. You just record by time and channel rather than from a program guide.

The biggest problem with Tivo is probably the pricing. You can't have both an expensive box *and* pricey subscription. The limitations are also troublesome (multiple TVs, video extraction, unpermanent strage, etc.). It's easy to think of Tivo as an outrageously expensive yet inferior VCR. Hence the modest up-take.

The better marketed alternatives should continue to rapidly over-take Tivo.

Posted by: pb at Oct 2, 2003 10:35:56 AM

"Subscription-less operation is pretty straightword. You just record by time and channel rather than from a program guide."

According to what I've read, Tivo has added annoying "nag" features to the non-subscriber version -- changing channels brings up a nag asking you to subscribe. Recorded shows are not marked by time or date, as well as a few other things that make using the box without a subscription extremely annoying.

See this page:

Posted by: justme at Feb 2, 2004 7:40:22 AM

See this page:

www.cs.buffalo.edu/~fsk/tivo/tivo.html

Posted by: just me again at Feb 2, 2004 7:41:31 AM

Ive got the TiVo intergrated with my Direct TV reciever. It was only a 50 dollar upgrade fee when I was getting the 3 rooms for free deal from Direct TV. The TiVo works much better than the DishPlayer that came with my old Dishnetwork system and with a 4 dollars less a month fee than Dishnetwork. My only problem is that I cannot seem to make it record to the VCR. When I play the VCR back after going thru the record process I only get a lot of static that looks like it tried to save the image but the tape is just not capable of saving the image correclty.
If any one knows how to make this feature work. please let me know. Thanks.

Posted by: Tripp at Feb 28, 2004 12:19:05 AM

I agree with most of the posts here but some of them are really off-base. My wife bought this machine for me with the understanding that even without the subscription service it would still pause my football games etc. Even if I skip the intro screen, it freezes the screen after a few seconds. Nothing short of a power cycle re-boot will un-freeze it and it does the same thing again. This seems to me to be false advertising. Do I smell a class-action lawsuit here or are there just too few units out there to warrant it.

Posted by: phil at Apr 2, 2004 7:42:39 PM

So, the Tivo with no subscription doesn't do a single thing?

Posted by: david martinez at Apr 10, 2004 10:09:32 PM

I've got an older Sony SRV2000. I am able to use it w/o a subscription, but as mentioned before, there is an annoying nag when you change channels. Also, my call letters for the stations are wrong for some reason, I suppose because it won't download the new ones. But pausing live tv, and recording all work as expected.

I have read that newer units (software version 2) disable these features w/o the subscription. So if you want a Tivo that you don't have to subscribe to, go on Ebay, and buy an older one like mine for about $100 or less.

As far as Tripp goes, I think you need to take that thing back and get another. I've heard of that bug before, but not sure where I read it, sorry.

Posted by: matt at May 3, 2004 7:03:07 AM

I bought a tivo about 8 years ago with the lifetime subscription. I'm told NOW it only applies to the unit I bought originally. I doubt I would have ever purchased the service if that was true. I have had to replace the unit 2 or 3 times and never had to pay again. If I could lay my hands on the original agreement so I could KNOW I was an idiot instead of not being sure.

Posted by: Glen at Jul 31, 2004 4:31:54 PM

What a scam! I have the DirecTV with Tivo, generally a good device, but just as the 1 year warranty is expiring, the hard drive is failing (machine freezes picture, becomes unresponsive, needs to be reset, only to do it all over again). The customer support is terrible. From what Philips tells me the hard drive is not covered under warranty. The unit can be sent back for repair/upgrade for $79.99 + S/H. Third party vendors can repair for that amount or more! A new unit can be bought for $79.99 with free shipping. It seems these DVR companies can coerce you to junk an otherwise usable unit and purchase a new one so they can claim continued sales increases. If this doesn't warrant a class action lawsuit, I don't know what does. Too bad I'm not a lawyer.

Posted by: Wendell at Aug 3, 2004 7:24:03 PM

I just lost the audio on my TiVo. Don't get me wrong, I love my TiVo and the next 4 days are going to be rough while waiting for my new box. However, I think there may be some legitimacy to this idea that they are trying to increase sales figures. I have to pay TiVo $49.99 for my new box and then pay for the shipping to send my defective box back. I haven't found many cases like mine yet, but if there are many out there, I'm sure it will become public soon enough.

Posted by: Kevin Michael Beall at Oct 15, 2004 11:23:38 AM

I had my TiVo for 14 months, when suddenly it began making a horrible noise, like the sound a VCR makes rewinding. I called TiVo and the tech support people transferred me to exchanges, who informed me that I could choose to keep my noisy TiVo or pay $79.99 to get a refurbished one. After a lot of transferring and complaints on my end, a supervisor lowered the price to $49.99. I can't believe the TiVo warranty is only 3 months before you have to pay. I paid $399 for my TiVo brand new. What other high-priced items like that have such a terrible warranty? I think that my TiVo is great, but I am really disappointed in the quality of the product and the warranty.

Posted by: Erin at Dec 2, 2004 4:28:45 PM

The others post here about it works like a fancy VCR is only true for the Tivo 1 series. I bought the Tivo 2 and if you don't have the service it don't work PERIOD!

Out of all of the feathures the only thing that works is the pause live TV. So I'm returning it to the store tomorrow!

Posted by: Mr. No go at Dec 14, 2004 6:58:41 PM

I love my tivo. I had a tc card in my pc, but dealing with the tivo is much easier. It also gives you a better quality than the pc tuner card. Another thing, is that tivo has a much better recording software(It runs linux-a perfect operating system). It is also desingened to do the job-my computer doesnt come with a remote:(. Tivo is the best $400 investment i have made. I only did like how I had to have service though for it to work:(- watch out!!

Posted by: Matt at Feb 3, 2005 3:32:02 PM

I inherited a TiVo that has 4.0 software. It was connected for a week at my Mom's house and got the software upgrade. I have no plans to subscribe to service, but would I be able to use the Media option with my PC ? Can pick up a USB wifi fob for $20 at Best Buy.

Posted by: DrK at Feb 25, 2005 10:39:30 AM

I just wish DirecTV would just get its act together with Tivo. Todd Lokken.

Posted by: Todd Lokken at Sep 26, 2005 7:36:49 AM

I just bought a tivo 2 dated 2003 at a garage sale for $15. Will this unit work without a paid subscription as a basic DVR or not? I do not care for the special features of fast foreward commercials and things, just a basic recorder.

Posted by: Travis at Jun 3, 2006 9:54:55 AM

The subscription is stored in the Tivo itself. If your hard drive fails, you can buy a new one from www.weaknees.com that is preformatted, easy to install. reboot your tivo and go thru guided setup again. you will have a new drive, and your lifetime subscription will still be intact, it's on a chip in the unit, not the drive. the subscription is for the life of the unit, not tied to the person who bought it. Hope this helps. I've replaced the drive on ours and we couldn't imagine life without it. after a month or two, I don't see how anybody could. It's good not to have 50 vcr tapes lying around...

Posted by: sp at Dec 19, 2006 8:27:56 PM

I am thinking about buying a Tivo through Ebay. Is there a specific model that I should buy? I do not intend to purchase the subscription service at all. I am looking for a Tivo model that works best without the subscription.

Posted by: cisco at Jan 17, 2007 6:56:28 AM

for cisco.
In 2000 I purchased a Tivo Series 1. I used it for about a year and disconnected my land line telephone, going totally wireless. Although I paid the subscription automatically for over a year after that (couldnt seem to get them to stop deducting it from my account until I changed banks). I stopped using it for about a year. In 2003 I hooked it back up and have been using it to this day. I am very satisfied with it. The only this I ever really used still works. Its on right now. The only inconvienence to me is I cant set the clock, it has drifted 37 min in this time. If I want to start a recording at 9pm I have to us 9:35pm. Other than that all is well. So 5 years of good service without a subscription. I know nothing about the later models. I will never have a subscription again. I use cellular broadband and cell phone. Dont know what I will do when I switch to digital TV. Any Ideas.
I work at home and my time is muxed and pause it WAY important. I use only off-air analog TV. Recording is very important because it takes days to fine something to watch. Go on ebay and try to find a series 1 Tivo. Works great right now but analog is going away real soon.

Posted by: Jon Davis at Sep 16, 2007 10:57:11 AM

Tivo: First Mover Disadvantage?

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